0:00 -- Intro.
1:09 -- Start of interview.
1:37 -- Cindie's "origin story."
3:41 -- On her executive career before joining boards.
5:31 -- On her turnaround CFO career. Joining Tatum, an executive services firm, and her CFO turnaround/crisis practice.
15:14-- Her transition to public company board service. Her first board role in 2003 with Horizon Organic Holdings (based in Denver, CO). "The CEO wanted a financial expert and a mom in the boardroom." Her second board, also in 2003, was with Tractor Supply. She later joined B&G Foods as it went public (based in New Jersey). She retired from her day job in 2013 and focused on her board career with four boards, including Office Depot, Darden Restaurants and Big Lots.
23:34 -- Her experience with high profile activist campaigns led by Jeffrey Smith from Starboard Value in Office Depot (2013) and Darden Restaurants (2014). "Darden is a tremendous success story, and it's really thanks to management [Gene Lee who became CEO, and Rick Cardenas who is the CEO now. They are the ones that made it happen."
30:15 -- Her thoughts on how to address the market downturn from the boardroom's perspective. "Boards should look at liquidity (~24 months) and incentive comp plans."
34:13 -- Her take on ESG. "I don't know who put E, S, and G together because they are three completely separate areas." "A lot of the political pressure is just a communications challenge." "Any topic du jour [and ESG falls in this category] is a luxury that you can only have when times are good." "When times get tough [like in current market down cycle], the focus is all on the top line and bottom line, anything else is a luxury. So I'm not surprised that people have pushed back against ESG, since they want better results and earnings, giving back to shareholders what they want to be getting."
36:54 -- On the role of corporations in society. "ESG may be really important for society, but is it the company's job or the Government's job? Who should be policing it?" Reference to Milton Friedman's 1970 letter "The Social Responsibility of Business is to Increase its Profits."
39:11 -- On boardroom dynamics involving generational shifts (both on boards and C-suite), diversity and post pandemic trends. "The dynamics of human capital have changed." "I personally think that the next big push for board members is going to be human capital experts."
47:25 -- On the evolution, opportunities and challenges of boardroom diversity.
55:10 -- The books have greatly influenced her life: she's a big fan of Anna Quindlen and Edith Wharton.
55:50 -- Her mentors, and what she learned from them.
56:48 -- Quotes she thinks of often or lives her life by: "You're never as good as you think you're are and you're never as bad as you think you are."
57:37 -- An unusual habit or an absurd thing that she loves: Orange Theory.
58:26 -- The living person she most admires: "The unsung hero."
Cynthia Jamison is a public company chair and board member; financial expert and retired turnaround CFO. She currently serves on the boards of Office Depot, Darden Restaurants and Big Lots.
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You can follow Evan on social media at:
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LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
0:00 -- Intro.
1:18 -- Start of interview.
1:53 -- Alicia's "origin story" and her career in finance and search/recruiting industry.
4:52 -- Her role founding investment firms. She was the first employee and CAO at Mount Kellett Capital Management and founded Pantegrion Capital, an investment vehicle focused on seed and early stage investments.
7:02 -- Her journey in the corporate board world. She's now the Chair at Digimarc (Nasdaq: DMRC).
8:11 -- On the distinctions between private and public boards.
12:24 -- On the NY tech scene.
17:02 -- On the exodus of finance/tech executives from NY post-pandemic.
18:47 -- The origin and mission of the Madam Chair, a collaborative group of 200+ female Chairs and Lead Directors of publicly-traded companies.
29:11 -- Some lessons after joining a public company board.
33:32 -- Her take on the role of the board in strategy and innovation. "It's absolutely the board's role to ask very smart questions." "Innovation should be baked into a risk review process."
37:48 -- Her take on ESG, the anti-ESG backlash and the politicization of corporate governance.
43:00 -- On the geopolitical concerns in the boardroom, particularly on "decoupling" or "de-risking" with China.
45:32 -- Her thoughts on board education, and staying up to date (for example, with feedly app).
47:56 -- The books have greatly influenced her life: the classics from high school (1984, The Bell Jar, A Confederacy of Dunces, The Catcher in the Rye, etc.)
49:37 -- Her mentors, and what she learned from them: "It's more of a mindset for me where I see people doing great things and I think wow, how do I do that."
51:00 -- Quotes she thinks of often or lives her life by: "This too shall pass." "The best is yet to come."
51:42 -- An unusual habit or an absurd thing that she loves: Mac and cheese.
52:18 -- The living person she most admires: Volodymyr Zelenskyy.
Alicia Syrett currently serves as the Chair of Digimarc (Nasdaq: DMRC) and founded the Madam Chair group, an organization with 200+ female Chairs and Lead Directors of publicly traded companies.
__
You can follow Alicia on social media at:
Twitter: @AliciaSyrett
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aliciasyrett/
Madam Chair: www.madam-chair.com
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You can follow Evan on social media at:
Twitter: @evanepstein
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
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Patreon: patreon.com/BoardroomGovernancePod
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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
0:00 -- Intro.
*Note: you can check out our analysis of Succession's first season in E98 of this podcast (published on May 22nd, 2023).
1:43 -- Start of interview.
4:03 -- Governance challenges to family-owned companies.
5:50 -- On Kendall's car accident and legal implications. Issues of corporate wellness, mental issues and drug-use. *Story on Tyson Foods' CFO.
10:55 -- Waystar’s response to “bear hug” offer from Maysberry. “I saw their plan, but my father's was better.” On disclosure process and vetting of public statements.
17:34-- Impact of explosion of Waystar rocket in Japan (after Roman rushed the launch).
18:45-- On Shiv's prospects as CEO of Waystar.
20:13 -- On the role of the board in the "bear hug," conflicts of interests, and lack of an independent committee of the board.
21:25 -- The Pierce acquisition to block Sandy and Stewy. On the role of third-party advisors (investment banks) and the Jamie Laird character.
27:46 -- On sovereign wealth funds looking to control the news through ATN. On the character of Mark Ravenhead.
33:10 -- The Vaulter shutdown and question on unions.
41:04 -- Revelation of cruise line issues (press report) lead to loss of business opportunities (Pierce, etc.) and loss of key employees (Rhea’s departure). The accounting whistleblower. Rhea, worrying that she’s agreed to be CEO of a “dumpster fire pirate death ship” says, “Either they did know, which is terrible, or they didn’t know, which is an unconscionable lack of control.” (Caremark standard)
47:17 -- The Congressional hearing. How should CEOs and/or management prepare for congressional hearings? "This is not a court house, it's a stage." "Testifying in Congress is much more similar to being on a Sunday morning news show." "The clock is your friend here." "In circumstances like that, sometimes the best answers are yes, no, or I don't recall - as opposed to speechifying about something."
54:35 -- The questionable decision of having a general counsel testify in Congress. On waivers of attorney-client privilege.
1:00:26 -- The "blood sacrifice" offered by Waystar Royco after the Congressional hearing. Caremark standard and the fallacy of "what you don't know can't hurt you" (willful blindness). The NRPI ("No Real Person Involved") notations in shadow logs.
1:09:26 -- Cultural and reputational issues and the way the show connects them to shareholder value. Culture of fear and bullying. Sexual harassment and improper behavior.
Kate O'Leary is the Global Executive Litigation Counsel at General Electric Company.
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You can follow Evan on social media at:
Twitter: @evanepstein
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
0:00 -- Intro.
1:16 -- Start of interview.
1:55 -- Georgia's "origin story".
2:42 -- The founding story of her company Tumelo.
5:37 -- On their differentiation with the divestment movement. Referenced: ShareAction, AMNT.
8:01-- On her role as a member of Aviva's Independent Governance Committee.
10:15 -- On the rise of institutional investors and their impact on corporate governance, along with concentration of power. Reference to E89 with Jan Van Eck: "Some Index Fund Companies Have Become Too Large To Be Left Unchecked."
16:54 -- On large asset managers passing-through voting power to beneficial owners (ie. BlackRock's Voting Choice). The opt-in model.
23:15 -- The contrast of ESG vs anti-ESG trends in the US and the UK. Reference to Vivek Ramaswamy (founder of Strive Asset Management) and Konstantin Kisin (UK-based commentator, anti-woke positions).
26:44 -- On the influence of the UK Stewardship Code.
30:34 -- On the role of proxy advisors (ie ISS and Glass Lewis) in proxy voting. "I think more diversification in that space is going to be important and inevitable (and technology will help with that)."
37:14 -- On the rise of retail investing post-pandemic and the impact of voting technologies. "The future of retail investor voting is all about the experience on the platform." Reference to Robinhood's acquisition of Say ($140m).
42:13 -- Issuers and directors will need to think about the new paradigm of investor communications.
43:33 -- The books that have greatly influenced her life: Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie books. "They changed and improved the way I think about race."
44:21 -- Her mentors, and what she learned from them: Her dad.
45:27 -- Quotes she thinks of often or lives her life by: "You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough." (Mae West).
45:46 -- An unusual habit or an absurd thing that she loves: Foraging.
46:45 -- The living person she most admires: Paula Radcliffe.
Georgia Stewart is the CEO and co-founder of Tumelo, a UK based fintech company seeking to change the landscape of stewardship and investor voting.
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You can follow Georgia on social media at:
Twitter: @IAmGeorgiaS
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/georgia-stewart-861697107/
Tumelo: www.tumelo.com
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You can follow Evan on social media at:
Twitter: @evanepstein
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
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You can join as a Patron of the Boardroom Governance Podcast at:
Patreon: patreon.com/BoardroomGovernancePod
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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
0:00 -- Intro.
3:45 -- Start of interview.
5:09 -- Leo's "origin story". His focus on public service, and work for then Delaware Governor (now U.S. Senator) Tom Carper.
9:41 -- On his time at Skadden's Wilmington office.
11:52 -- On his time at the Delaware Court of Chancery and as Chief Justice of the Delaware Supreme Court.
15:32-- His views on the evolution (and strengths) of the Delaware Court of Chancery. Its symbiosis with the SEC. "The courts in Delaware are not infected by partisanship." "Our brand is everything." "Delaware is not a tax haven."
24:40 -- On companies leaving Delaware or the US (via inversions). "We do not impede the flow of capital."
28:34 -- Why he wrote his new paper "Good Corporate Citizenship We Can All Get Behind?: Toward A Principled, Non-Ideological Approach To Making Money The Right Way." (December 7, 2022). 78 Bus. Law. 329 (2023), "The old word for ESG was CSR, this is not a new debate." "ESG is a proxy for good corporate citizenship, it's about making money the right way."
38:28 -- His proposed Model of Good, Non-Ideological Corporate Citizenship. "Make money without making harm". Reference to paper "Companies Should Maximize Shareholder Welfare Not Market Value" by Hart & Zingales.
44:49 -- On corporate political spending. "Corporate law has often policed conflict transactions." The role of the board in this process. The function of independent directors. Jack Bogle: "Institutional investors should insist that the proxy statement of each company in which they invest contain the following: Resolved: That the corporation shall make no political contributions without the approval of the holders of at least 75 percent of its shares outstanding.” "Citizens United is sort of a white whale of mine." "I would like to see Profs Lucian Bebchuk, Rob Jackson and Frank Partnoy push shareholder proposals to curb corporate political spending."
58:16 -- On institutional investors' role (and challenges) in corporate governance. "I don't like the fact that [large asset managers] may be trying to escape their responsibility by passing through the voting." "With power should come responsibility."
1:08:27 -- The complexity of climate change discourse: "actuaries and scientists agree on this problem." "Thanksgiving dinner behavior needs to be where we are on the business community."
1:12:03 -- The books that have greatly influenced his life:
1:14:30 -- His mentors, and what he learned from them: The two judges that he clerked for, Rod Ward (founder and longtime leader of Skadden's Wilmington office), Senator Tom Carper, his colleagues at the Delaware Chancery Court, Marty Lipton, Bob Clark and Michael Wachter, his wife.
1:18:30 -- Quotes he thinks of often or lives his life by: "Clown time is over." (Elvis Costello). "Be yourself, unless of course you are an asshole, in which case be someone else."
1:20:23 -- An unusual habit or an absurd thing that he loves: Lyrics. "I have stuck in my head pretty much every pop song of the 1970s" ("life is stuck in two decades: for me, it's the 1970s and the 1990s").
1:23:13 -- The living person he most admires: the people who do the hardest jobs with no public glory.
Leo E Strine, Jr. is Of Counsel in the Corporate Department at Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen & Katz. Prior to joining the firm, he was the Chief Justice of the Delaware Supreme Court from early 2014 through late 2019. Before becoming the Chief Justice, he served on the Delaware Court of Chancery as Chancellor since June 22, 2011, and as a Vice Chancellor since November 9, 1998.
__
You can follow Evan on social media at:
Twitter: @evanepstein
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
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Patreon: patreon.com/BoardroomGovernancePod
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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
0:00 -- Intro.
1:30 -- Start of interview.
2:12 -- Barrett's "origin story".
6:11 -- His start in finance. First in Stone & Youngberg then in Lehman Brothers in SF. His first secondary market transactions in private company stock (Facebook) in 2007.
8:54-- His experience working at SVB (internship with wine finance team) and Lehman Brothers (business development).
12:10 -- The early days of secondary market transactions for private company stock with SecondMarket, later acquired by Nasdaq in 2015 (now Nasdaq Private Market).
14:25 -- His entrepreneurial stint as CEO of Juno Company, a children's educational media company.
15:56 -- His VC stint as an advisor with Maveron.
17:20 -- On the founding of his firm Scenic Advisement in 2013.
18:12 -- History of investment banks in SF helping founders to get liquidity (the Four Horsemen of Silicon Valley’s financial community: Alex.Brown, Hambrecht & Quist, Robertson Stephens & Co. and Montgomery Securities underwrote a large number of IPO offerings, both before and during the dotcom boom.)
20:36 -- The ethos and vision behind Scenic Advisement. "The opportunity was to build a bank that really was the standard bearer, establishing best practices so that [institutional investors] had a counter-party or a middleman who could speak their language and conversely, the people building great companies had a partner who they could trust, because that partner had empathy: they were ex founders, ex VCs or from the community, not some transactional banker who lives 3,000 miles away and knows nothing of the company but knows that there is a big fee to be had and a league table to be on." "Our plan was to drive hard empathy."
24:17 -- On the current state of private markets. "It's been a boom marked by irrational exuberance, and then a correction, as markets do." "But I can tell you, and I do so with great thanks, that the market is thawing and we are starting to see investors come back." "I could have taken all of 2022 off, and from a stress perspective, it would have probably been beneficial, but I just didn't have a crystal ball."
27:42 -- On the regulation of unicorns and private markets generally. Going dark speech by SEC Commissioner Lee (Oct 2021).
33:08 -- On the Stay Private for Longer ("SPL") advice in Silicon Valley ["The worst advice" per Gurley and Rabois]. "Companies now stay private long. That's it. This is not a trend, it is a market reality at this point." "It's also totally business dependent."
37:52 -- The opportunities and challenges for founders, investors and employees in private markets. "The Sequoia move to an evergreen fund structure is a brilliant idea." "The Stripe multi-billion financing was the company being really proactive to options expiry, to ensure that the most important asset at Stripe, the people, are made whole or don't loose the benefit of the bargain (that would be awful for everyone and for morale)." "We are going to see more and more of that."
39:39 -- How companies treat employees vs ex-employees on stock options: "It varies from company to company and from founder to founder. My advice typically is to be egalitarian."
41:21 -- On regional differences in tech ecosystems in the US.
43:47 -- The impact of the collapse of SVB and First Republic in the SF/Bay Area tech ecosytem. "I believe in diversification. I believe in selling early and often. I want to implore founders and investors to take chips off the table when you can, because you can't always and things go away. People forget that."
47:40 -- Thoughts on crypto and digital assets market.
49:17 -- Thoughts on Artificial Intelligence (AI) market. "It's the next major wave. Unlike crypto and digital assets, this is not a fad."
51:05 -- The books that have greatly influenced his life:
51:38 -- His mentors, and what he learned from them: the most impactful mentor for him has been his mother.
52:58 -- Quotes he thinks of often or lives his life by: "Have hard conversations early and often." "Empathy is a very important tool even when delivering difficult messages."
53:25 -- An unusual habit or an absurd thing that he loves: sneaker collection and tequila ("it's like love in a bottle").
58:14 -- The person he most admires: entrepreneurs.
Barrett Cohn is the CEO and co-founder of Scenic Advisement, a San Francisco based investment bank specializing in servicing the liquidity needs of high growth, late-stage technology companies, their investors, and founders.
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You can follow Evan on social media at:
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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
0:00 -- Intro.
1:38 -- Start of interview.
3:23 -- Kate's origin story and her professional background.
4:54 -- About the ESG & Law Institute led by David Curran from Paul Weiss (Kate serves as an advisory board member).
7:08 -- Premise of HBO's Succession show. "It's a show about power dynamics. But it's also a show about governance, and how power is or not constrained in the corporate world, the political world and within a family." "It is also a show about governance, which should operate as a constraint on abuse of power, if it’s working effectively." "The show does a very good job in linking governance with shareholder value."
10:30 -- The role of the board in CEO succession. Two issues: 1) Who should take over, 2) What's the proper timing. Also, how to handle health matters of current CEOs.
15:24-- The role of the family (Trust) in governance matters of Roystar RoyCo.
20:43-- The “Death Pit”. How should employees and officers react when they learn about serious misconduct? What internal controls are missing at Waystar Royco that would have potentially led to a different outcome? What are potential consequences of covering up past serious misconduct? The role of compliance and reporting channels in corporations. Caremark doctrine in Delaware ("once you know something, you have to act"). "The sin cake eater" advice. The SEC whistleblower program.
27:51 -- On proper disclosure controls, and open reporting. Internal investigations. Ineffective training.
30:56 -- On "disclosure committees" of material non-public information (link to the board's Audit Committee). Multi-functional committees (legal, finance, communications, IR, etc.) Theme throughout Succession (the show): "How do you make responsible decisions in the face of imperfect information?" "This show is like a giant final exam on governance."
36:25 -- On the interaction between Legal, Finance, Communications, IR and PR. "Effective governance comes down to people, processes and policies: you need to have the right people in the room, an appropriate process for them to come together and make a decision, and policies that guide that decision making."
39:18 -- On the role of the general counsel (played by character Gerri Kellman in the show). "Gerri is secret keeper for Logan, rather than gatekeeper as expected by SEC/DOJ. She helps to cover secret loan not authorized by Board, as well as “death pit” issues on cruise ships – counsels Tom to keep quiet." "She's such a compromised character. She's not effective at all."
45:41 -- The deal with private equity (activist?) “friend” of Kendall, Stewy Hosseini (including board seats). "Kendall's big downfall is that he tries to be the same type of leader as his father [and he's also just not as good, he's not Logan]." The conflict of interests.
50:31 -- The Vaulter acquisition (and Lawrence joining the board of Roystar RoyCo.). "There was no process around it." "The board would traditionally look at the deal strategically and in terms of price (ie. is this the right acquisition target; what are some of the other companies in this space; is this the right strategy; why this now, does it fit with where the company is going; what is the company like, etc.)
54:31 -- Board vote on no-confidence motion against Chairman & CEO Logan Roy. What is appropriate process for this type of Board action against a CEO? "The corporate governance aspect that really stands out here is the lack of appropriate board process." How should the Board and GC have reacted Kendall’s request for a delay and Logan’s refusal to recuse himself? How else could/should situation have been handled? What special procedures might be appropriate given impact of family relationships on governance issues? How are these family relationships analogous to other kinds of relationships in corporations? What does this suggest to in terms of importance of robust procedures and controls?
1:01:00-- Other thoughts for directors from Season 1 of Succession:
- Litigation risks from M&A.
- Leadership.
- Company Culture.
- Government and Regulatory matters.
- Corporate Purpose and ESG (and political interplay).
Kate O'Leary is the Global Executive Litigation Counsel at General Electric Company.
__
You can follow Evan on social media at:
Twitter: @evanepstein
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
0:00 -- Intro.
1:41 -- Start of interview.
2:58 -- On current market conditions. Impact of interest rate hikes by the Federal Reserve, particularly on banks.
3:35 -- The gap between news coverage, what people think is happening and what actually is happening on the ground. The example of First Republic.
15:37-- How 'bank runs' have changed. The Meme Run. "A meme is a first impression decision-making instrument."
18:43 -- The media/general confusion over regulatory/supervisory agencies overseeing banks. FDIC and the Federal Reserve.
20:50 -- On the Federal Reserve's Report on SVB (April 28, 2023). "Capital buffers are a universal antibiotic for all of these problems [but they are costly and represent a trade-off]." The role of the board in considering risks.
32:48-- Should risk-management experts for risk-management committees of bank board be mandated? "Sometimes engaged, informed and thoughtful (but non-expert) directors ask the best questions."
40:25 -- On executive compensation and incentives of bank executives (in light of the SVB Report). "The lack of a clawback (in this case) for a risk management failure is amiss."
45:56 -- On whether short sellers in banks should be curtailed in these market conditions.
52:04 -- On the fate (and crisis) of regional banks. "Regional banks are the heart and soul of the American banking system." "I don't think that it's a good thing that big banks get any bigger."
57:34 -- On JP Morgan's acquisition of First Republic.
1:00:24 -- How Silicon Valley will be impacted with the loss of SVB and First Republic. The "Industry Vertical Contagion": failure of banks that serve particular industries. "I don't think there is enough appreciation yet on how catastrophic it would have been to let depositors in the tech industry get wiped out or receive significant hair cuts [on SVB's failure]." "I'm glad that the Fed did the call that they did."
1:07:59 -- Banking alternatives given low interest rates paid by banks to depositors. "It's an existential question for the entire industry." "Central bank digital currencies will really move the needle." [The Brazilian Central Bank created Pix, the Brazilian IP scheme that enables its users — people, companies and governmental entities — to send or receive payment transfers in few seconds at any time, including non-business days.]
1:13:26 -- The future impact of U.S. fiscal policy and the national debt as it has surpassed $31 trillion (US Debt Ratio to GDP is currently at ~120%)
Dan Siciliano is the Vice-Chair of the Federal Home Loan Bank of San Francisco, the Chair of the Silicon Valley Directors’ Exchange and the co-founder and CEO of Nikkl, a company that provides capital to unicorn employees.
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You can follow Evan on social media at:
Twitter: @evanepstein
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
0:00 -- Intro.
1:35 -- Start of interview.
2:15 -- Bethany's "origin story".
3:35 -- Her experience working at Lockheed Martin.
5:55-- Her transition to Apple Computer, Cisco, startups in networking technologies and Blue Coat.
8:17 -- Her time at HP, where ended running the Networking division.
8:55 -- Her role as CEO of Ixia (later sold to Keysight Technologies for $1.6bn in 2017)
10:17 -- On her board journey. Her first public company experience with Ixia, under the mentorship of Chairman Errol Ginsberg.
11:07 -- Her experience serving on the board of Sempra Energy and as an Executive Advisor with Siris Capital (a PE firm). Her board positions with Box, Marvell Semiconductor and Lam Research.
13:38 -- On her decision to complete a Masters Program in Cybersecurity Risk and Strategy from NYU: "to be a good board member in this area [in addition to technical issues] you need to understand issues related to technology, law, regulation and governance."
17:09 -- The current cybersecurity landscape from the board's perspective. "Over the last ~10+ years, the incidence, frequency, sophistication and damage of cybersecurity breaches has continued to significantly escalate." "For companies, it has been very costly (examples: Equifax, Target, Home Depot, Colonial Pipelines, Solar Winds, etc.)" "The attacks will continue and they are getting easier to do, ie. ransonware as-service-attack." "This is only going to get worse." "Nation states are also involved, and it's very hard to keep up."
21:15 -- Where does cybersecurity fit in board committees? Audit committees vs special cybersecurity committees and full board discussions.
25:05 -- On cybersecurity experts on boards. "It's important to have someone on your board who has a reasonable technical understanding of what the CISO and/or CIO is talking about re cybersecurity (ability to translate technical discussion to board level discussion.)" It's different to raw technology expertise. "Why wouldn't you have someone in the room with cybersecurity expertise (when the cybersecurity risk is so high)?"
28:39 -- On cybersecurity challenges going forward. 1) Nation-state risks (ie Russia, China, North Korea, Iran), 2) AI risks (ie. using certain automated AI-based coding could insert malicious code into software source-code).
34:30 -- On staying updated on the latest cybersecurity threats. Recommended experts: Bob Zukis from the Digital Directors Network (he was guest speaker on my E81 of the Boardroom Governance Podcast) and Ed Amoroso with Tag Cyber / NYU. You should also pay attention to the Cybersecurity & Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA). *Other sources:
- The Cipher Brief
- Cyber Initiatives Group
- Harvard Business Review ("a lot of good articles on cyber governance")
- The Cyberwire
37:41 -- On the enhanced duties of directors in the market downcycle. "Innovation will continue despite the economic crisis." "The pendulum swings back and forth, and there will be a recovery."
42:28 -- On the increasing geopolitical risks with China and how boards should approach this "decoupling" or "de-risking". "As a board member, this is a risk issue and it has to be managed and mitigated."
47:56 -- The books that have greatly influenced her life:
51:04 -- Her mentors, and what she learned from them.
54:55 -- Quotes she thinks of often or lives his life by: "The best way out is always through." (Robert Frost)
56:20 -- An unusual habit or an absurd thing that she loves: Bird watching (influenced by her husband).
58:14 -- The person she most admires: Ruth Bader Ginsburg.
Bethany Mayer is a Silicon Valley-based corporate director with 30 years of experience in general management, marketing, product development and operations. She previously held executive roles at HP, Cisco, Blue Coat, Apple, and start-ups. Bethany has served on several public and private company boards, including at Ixia, Pulse Secure and Marvell Semiconductor. She currently serves as the Chair of the Board of Box, and is a director at Sempra Energy, Ambri and Lam Research.
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You can follow Evan on social media at:
Twitter: @evanepstein
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
0:00 -- Intro.
2:00 -- Start of interview.
2:28 -- Karen's "origin story".
3:24 -- Her management career at Procter & Gamble, Bain & Co (focusing on property and casualty insurance), Berol, GM, ICG and Ford (where she led the Corporate Venture Capital Group).
11:12 -- Her transition to SF/Bay Area and tech as CEO of Publicis & Hal Riney and AcademixDirect.
13:23 -- Distinctions between operating in startups and public companies.
14:20 -- On her board journey:
- Past board positions: portfolio companies from Ford's Corporate Venture Capital Group, Hanover Insurance (NYSE), AutoNation (NYSE), Circle Graphics, Telenav (ex Nasdaq), Dynamic Signal, and Renivent TechPartners Y (SPAC on Nasdaq).
- Current Board positions: Nauto, Metawave, Wind River, TPG Global (*Sr Advisor), CelLink (Chair), Vontier (Chair)(NYSE) and Polestar (Nasdaq).
16:57 -- On distinctions between PE-backed and VC-backed company boards (and the role of independent directors in each).
21:00 -- On serving as a director of a SPAC company (and distinctions between SPAC companies and the resulting public company from de-SPAC transactions. She's served on both capacities: with Reid Hoffman's Renivent TechPartners Y and Polestar (joining after it went public via a de-SPAC transaction).
24:34 -- On serving in international company boards.
30:50 -- The challenges and opportunities of the automotive industry's transition to EV. The impact of Tesla and Government incentives.
36:02 -- On the role of Chair and/or lead independent directors. "Fundamentally, the Chair or Lead Independent Director is the CEO's Person."
39:19 -- On the separation of the Chair and CEO roles.
41:47 -- Her advice on board evaluations.
45:50-- Her take on ESG and the anti-ESG backlash. "The #1 target audience for this work is the employee base." "In today's world, talent is one of the most important and scarce assets that a company has, and any shareholder should care if the company is retaining talent."
51:49 -- The books that have greatly influenced her life:
52:57 -- Her mentors, and what she learned from them.
53:56 -- Quotes she thinks of often or lives his life by: "Life is short."
54:58 -- An unusual habit or an absurd thing that he loves: wine making. She owns a winery, Limerick Lane Cellars, in Healdsburg, California.
56:42 -- On the impact of the collapse of SVB in the wine and tech industry.
59:39 -- The living person she most admires: Oprah Winfrey.
Karen C. Francis is a Silicon Valley based corporate director with a strong track record of successfully building companies and businesses across multiple industries. Karen has deep domain knowledge in the automotive and advertising sectors and has embraced the opportunities that technology disruption is creating globally.
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You can follow Evan on social media at:
Twitter: @evanepstein
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
0:00 -- Intro.
1:35 -- Start of interview.
2:05 -- Alan's "origin story".
2:43 -- On his background as a U.S. Air Force pilot.
4:42 -- On the evolution of his academic career, including at and Stanford GSB and U. of Colorado Boulder.
7:01 -- On his Professorship at Cambridge Judge Business School and his role as Co-Director of the Centre for Financial Reporting and Accountability.
9:16 -- About the Cambridge Disinformation Summit, on July 27-28, 2023. "I would characterize fraud and greenwashing as disinformation." The difference between disinformation and misinformation.
14:49-- His research on fraud is based mostly on public markets (because public market data is more available than private market data).
18:18 -- On ESG, anti-ESG and (the accounting and auditing of) greenwashing. On creation of the Cambridge Executive Master of Accounting to focus on some of these emerging matters.
24:36 -- Challenges of ESG Ratings. "Despite the fact that it is challenging to measure, I think it's still worth engaging in it."
30:24 -- On the SVB collapse, and its accounting/financial reporting issues.
37:03 -- On geopolitics, the "uncoupling"/"re-balancing" of US/EU and China and the broader geopolitical landscape. "This is the highest geopolitical risk environment that I've ever lived through."
39:00 -- On microtargeting, and research by his colleague David Stillwell, the director of the Cambridge Psychometrics Centre.
40:25 -- On the challenges with TikTok.
42:12 -- On the disinformation challenges of Artificial Intelligence (AI).
44:35 -- On the SEC amendments to modernize Rule 10b5-1 insider trading plans and related disclosures.
47:58 -- Final take-aways for corporate directors: "You need to be paying attention to the information environment, more than just PR." "Your company is a both a political actor and a political target." "Having a Holistic Approach to Information is Critical."
50:03 -- The (recent) books that have greatly influenced his life:
52:19 -- His mentors, and what he learned from them.
54:00 -- Quotes he thinks of often or lives his life by: "The Absence of Negative is Positive."
54:50-- An unusual habit or an absurd thing that he loves: he has watched every single episode of The Bachelor and Survivor franchises (including Australian Survivor). "It's a huge social manipulation game."
56:12 -- The living person he most admires: "I sadly don't have an answer. I am waiting for some personality to start building community again."
Alan Jagolinzer is a Professor of Financial Accounting and the Co-Director of the Centre for Financial Accounting and Accountability at Cambridge's Judge Business School. His research interests include insider trading, financial reporting, corporate governance, and executive compensation and incentives.
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You can follow Alan on social media at:
Twitter: @jagolinzer
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jagolinzer/
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You can follow Evan on social media at:
Twitter: @evanepstein
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
0:00 -- Intro.
1:35 -- Start of interview.
2:05 -- Penny's "origin story".
3:38 -- Her experience as CEO of Simplex including its IPO (2001) and later sale (2002).
6:32 -- Her experience as CEO of FirstRain.
7:57 -- On her board journey. Public boards (past and present): Rambus, JDSU, Faurecia (France), Lumentum, Smart Global, Forvia, Embarck Trucks. Private tech software company boards: Delphix and Modern Health.
9:17 -- On distinctions between private and public boards. "A private VC-backed board is much more of a heavy lift than a public board... it's very interesting and you may not get paid [because it's based on stock]."
13:35-- On serving as an independent director in a private VC-backed company during the down-cycle. How VCs are reacting. "It's better to take a lower valuation from a high-quality strategic individual than it is to chase the highest valuation because a bad investor will hurt you faster than anything else."
16:00 -- On serving as Chair of public companies. "The biggest difference [between Chair and other directors] is that as Chair, you are the last to speak. It's really important to know that the role of the Chair is [to seek] the high quality functioning of the board and the participation of all the directors, not to share your opinion." "Leadership by listening rather than by speaking."
18:12 -- On the separation of Chair and CEO roles. "It's really important that you really do have an independent board."
20:29 -- On dual-class stock and founder control. "The benefit of dual-class stock with the benefit of a good founder is clarity of the strategy [preventing distraction]." "But there is a trade-off."
23:35 -- On the role of the board in strategy and innovation. "You have to create a culture to challenge at the board level."
26:30 -- Her take on ESG and the anti-ESG backlash. "I'm very pro-ESG, particularly E." "You have to have courage to lead."
33:33 -- On geopolitics and tensions with China. "We need more of a balancing than a decoupling (which is naive and unhealthy)." "The US has a complete chokehold on China for semiconductor manufacturing." "The semiconductor equipment comes from the US and Holland, and the software to design chips comes from California (dominated by two companies: Synopsis and Cadence)."
39:06 -- On the transition to EVs in the automotive industry.
40:38 -- On the evolution of boardroom diversity. "The California laws (SB-826 and AB-979), whether constitutional or not, brought great momentum for more board diversity."
42:59 -- On her experience serving on French (and EU) company boards (which have board diversity quotas and union representatives on the board).
47:55 -- How the automotive industry will change through technology and innovation.
50:24 -- The books that have greatly influenced her life (in this case, these books re-wired her brain on European history):
52:10 -- Her mentors, and what she learned from them.
53:40 -- On founders or CEOs transitioning to the Chair role of the board. "I think it really depends on the founder."
56:00 -- Quotes she thinks of often or lives his life by: "Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead."
56:30 -- An unusual habit or an absurd thing that he loves: She loves the city of Rome.
57:13 -- On the differences between the US and the UK/EU from a professional and cultural perspective. "As a woman, I couldn't imagine working in Europe in the 1980s or 1990s, and having any kind of career." "California is the best employment environment in the world for women in tech." "But to your general question: I would like to work in California and live in Europe."
58:22 -- The living person he most admires: her father.
Penny Herscher serves on four public company boards: Lumentum, SGH (Smart Global), Embark Trucks and Forvia SA and two private company boards, Delphix and Modern Health. She was President & CEO of two technology companies, Simplex and FirstRain, over the last 25 years. She is an experienced technology CEO, based in Silicon Valley, who took her first company, Simplex Solutions, public and then sold it to Cadence Design Systems in 2002. She sold her second company, FirstRain, to Ignite Technologies in 2017. Prior to Simplex, Penny was a member of the executive leadership team at Synopsys, through the IPO, on the way to becoming the #1 EDA company.
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You can follow Evan on social media at:
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LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
0:00 -- Intro.
2:00 -- Start of interview.
2:36 -- Paul's "origin story".
4:13 -- On the SVB collapse and current banking crisis.
8:04 -- On his time as a senior executive and corporate secretary at Time Warner (20 years).
11:28 -- About The Conference Board (founded in 1916) and his role as the Executive Director of its ESG Center (founded in 2019).
14:15 -- About their recent article “The Roles of the Board in the Era of ESG and Stakeholder Capitalism” (Feb, 2023). Focus on "the whom" (stakeholders) and "the what" (ESG).
18:40 -- Paul's take on the BRT Restatement of the Purpose of the Corporation (2019) and corporate directors' fiduciary duties under Delaware law.
23:51 -- On improving board evaluations.
27:54 -- Enhancing Board Information and Stakeholder Engagement in the Era of ESG and Stakeholder Capitalism.
30:03 -- Optimizing Board Composition, Structure, and Capabilities in the Era of ESG and Stakeholder Capitalism. "The leadership of your board is more critical than ever."
33:50 -- Incorporating ESG and Stakeholder Interests into Board Business Decisions.
36:02 -- The dangers of greenwashing. "ESG does not eliminate the business cycle."
40:02 -- On the "anti-ESG" backlash. "I would breakdown ESG backlash (resistance) into three components: 1) Healthy skepticism, 2) Philosophical or ideological opposition (the Milton Friedman stance), and 3) Opportunistic opposition: making ESG part of the culture wars: calling it "woke" or "elitist".
"But if the question is re-framed as a question of economic opportunity, fairness and security (the #1 social issues for CEOs per TCB research). That's how you de-fang the opposition." "How can you be against the G in ESG? Do you really want bad governance? No."
44:41-- On large asset managers passing-through voting power to beneficial owners.
48:00-- On geopolitics in the boardroom. "Boards need to do scenario planning."
51:30 -- The books that have greatly influenced his life:
53:57 -- His mentors, and what he learned from them ("in a meeting, park your ego at the door").
55:31 -- Quotes he thinks of often or lives his life by: "I wish to be useful, and every kind of service necessary to the public good becomes honorable by being necessary." ~ Nathan Hale.
56:42 -- An unusual habit or an absurd thing that he loves: "British murder mysteries."
57:30 -- The living person he most admires: his 7-year old son Jacob.
Paul Washington has led The Conference Board ESG Center, a US-based nonprofit think tank addressing corporate governance, sustainability, and citizenship, since 2019. Before joining The ESG Center, he served for nearly 20 years as an executive at Time Warner Inc., including as Senior Vice President, Deputy General Counsel, and Corporate Secretary, as well as Chief of Staff for the company’s Chairman and CEO.
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You can follow The Conference Board on social media at:
Twitter: @Conferenceboard
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-conference-board/
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You can follow Evan on social media at:
Twitter: @evanepstein
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
0:00 -- Intro.
1:35 -- Start of interview.
4:35 -- About his new book "The Profit Motive, Defending Shareholder Value Maximization" (2023). He wrote it to offer context for the current debate about corporate purpose and ESG. He argues that shareholder value maximization is not only required by law, but what the law ought to require.
9:23 -- His take on why we should care about corporate purpose.
13:54 -- The legal arguments and foundation for directors' duties to maximize shareholder value.
16:26 -- On the merits of the Business Roundtable Restatement of the Purpose of the Corporation (2019). "It can't really be justified." "The concern is that directors that are accountable to everybody, are accountable to no one."
20:54 -- On public benefit corporations. "The core problem of PBCs is that it's still the shareholders that elect directors, it's still the shareholders to whom the directors owe fiduciary duties, and that becomes a particular problem when a PBC goes public [they become vulnerable to shareholder activists.]" Example: Etsy case. "Hobby Lobby strikes me as an ideal [private company] to become a PBC [because they have a small number of shareholders, all of whom share the same social/political/religious point of views, and are willing to sacrifice profits to carry out those views and support a board of directors that seeks to advance those views."]
26:33 -- On the influence of EU/international views on U.S. corporations, and vice-versa (for example, influence of Delaware corporate law on international corporate law, ie. in Israel). On diversity quotas on boards.
31:07 -- The take-aways from his book: "be deeply skeptical about what CEOs say in this area [ESG], and watch what they do." The phenomenon of greenwashing. The case of Marc Benioff and Salesforce.
35:33 -- On the SVB collapse and the current financial crisis. "I think it's really important that directors be focused on enterprise risk management."
42:07 -- On the Credit Suisse collapse and merger with UBS. "It's been a banking industry problem child for a long time."
44:56 -- On the expansion of Caremark Duties and the McDonald's case. "There are two rulings from the case that are interesting but also controversial: 1) Officers also have Caremark duties (oversight obligations), and 2) Sexual harassment claims were breaches of fiduciary duty. We are potentially opening the door to treating employment discrimination cases as breaches of fiduciary duties. So what's next is sort of the question. I think [VC Laster] has opened a real Pandora's box in terms of [where this may be going]."
51:57 -- On the compliance industry. The rise of the Master of Legal Studies "M.L.S." with a focus on compliance at UCLA School of Law. "Compliance is a growth industry."
53:50 -- On large asset managers passing-through voting power to beneficial owners. "I'm deeply skeptical."
55:44 -- The books that have greatly influenced his life:
56:07 -- His mentors, and what he learned from them.
56:48 -- Paraphrasing Winston Churchill: "I'm prepared to settle for the very best" [the exact quote: “My tastes are simple: I am easily satisfied with the best.”]
57:07 -- An unusual habit or an absurd thing that he loves: he's an amateur chef, and loves designing meals, matching food with wine. Tropical fish.
57:46 -- The living person he most admires: Bishop Robert Barron.
Stephen Bainbridge is the William D. Warren Distinguished Professor of Law at UCLA School of Law. Professor Bainbridge is a prolific scholar, whose work covers a variety of subjects, but with a strong emphasis on the law and economics of public corporations. He has written over 100 law review articles and 20 books, including seven in multiple editions.
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You can follow Stephen on social media at:
Twitter: @PrawfBainbridge
Blog: https://www.professorbainbridge.com/
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You can follow Evan on social media at:
Twitter: @evanepstein
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
0:00 -- Intro.
1:51 -- Start of interview.
2:44 -- On Larry's move from academia to private practice as Special Counsel in Mayer Brown’s New York office. His writings in Mayer Brown's Across the Board's blog.
4:58 -- His message at the 37th Annual Francis G. Pileggi Distinguished Lecture in Law at Delaware Law School to the state’s corporate bench and bar.
9:02 -- Shareholder Typologies and demographics (long/short term, low/high conviction): Indexers, Transients, Activists and Quality Shareholders.
14:51 -- Attributes of directors: #1 requirement is business savvy, per Warren Buffett. | Pat formulas in corporate governance, ie. check-the-box approach "mandated by central command": why they should be viewed with great skepticism.
18:59 -- On the politicization of ESG, and Delaware's approach: "directors’ fiduciary duties run to shareholders, but they may promote the interests of others when those are rationally related to shareholder interests.” Delaware VC Laster's opinion in McDonalds II (dismissing all shareholder claims that directors violated their oversight duties amid a toxic corporate culture.)
25:00 -- Some reasons for increase in ESG debate: 1) Declining trust in government, 2) Rising concern about climate change, 3) Powerful social movements, and 4) Powerful institutional asset managers leaning on ESG. But Delaware remains a shareholder primacy state, "and that's a good thing", per former Chancellor of the Delaware Court of Chancery Andre Bouchard, now a partner at Paul Weiss partner, cited from a speech at a Directors' & Board event.
27:00 -- Directors' personal values "don't matter at all" when it comes to fiduciary duties, "what matters is only what is best for the company [corporate interests]."
30:58 -- On the SVB collapse, and the ongoing financial crisis (Silvergate, Signature, FRB, CS, etc). Larry's advice for boards who have been or could be affected, on the fundamentals of governance amid this heightened uncertainty. His firm's client alert: Maintaining Perspective: Governance and Disclosure Reminders for Public Companies.
In the Vicinity of Insolvency: "When a company is insolvent, creditors may obtain standing to bring a derivative action on behalf of the company for breach of fiduciary duties. Although the fiduciary duties of care and loyalty to the company remain the same, the beneficiaries of those duties shift. Since it can be hard to tell in real time when a company becomes insolvent, directors of a company in the vicinity of insolvency should view their duties through the lens of the different beneficiaries of those fiduciary duties."
36:07 -- The case of Credit Suisse's acquisition by UBS. The precedence of the US Government taking over AIG.
40:11 -- On his article: "Share Buybacks, Directors Should Stick with Economics, Avoid Politics."
46:32 -- On Warren Buffett, and whether the White House and/or bankers will seek him out for advise and/or dealmaking in this financial crisis: "He's waiting for the phone to ring with an attractive offer on the other end of the line."
50:27 -- Final words of advice for directors: "Directors of public companies are stewards of a business and they need to act with business judgement and not on personal preferences, political and social issues of the day."
Lawrence A. Cunningham is Special Counsel in Mayer Brown’s New York office. Larry is a member of the firm’s Capital Markets and Public Companies & Corporate Governance practices. Recognized as an authority on corporate governance and corporate law, Larry advises public companies and boards of directors in those areas and advises investment managers and shareholders on investor relations.
If you like this show, please consider subscribing, leaving a review or sharing this podcast on social media.
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You can follow Larry on social media at:
Twitter: @CunninghamProf
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lawrence-cunningham-68b7574b/
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You can follow Evan on social media at:
Twitter: @evanepstein
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
0:00 -- Intro.
1:36 -- Start of interview.
2:22 -- Jan's "origin story".
6:34 -- On the background of the investment firm Van Eck, founded by his father John Van Eck in 1955.
10:32 -- About Van Eck today (~$75 billion in AUM, 90% in ETFs). Jan started the ETF business in 2006.
11:45 -- About his article "ESG Died in 2022: CEO Op-Ed." The problem of concentration of power by the big three (BlackRock, Vanguard and SSGA). Reference to the article: Bogle Sounds a Warning on Index Funds (WSJ, 2018).
18:05 -- How to fix the problem of concentration of power. Some solutions provided by Jack Bogle.
20:17 -- Jan's proposal: 5% ownership cap to deal with concentration of power. "We in the industry have to address this." Legislation is also needed to do this.
23:22 -- The practice of large asset managers passing-through voting power to beneficial owners.
27:52 -- On geopolitics and China. "The sanctions risk is definitely a friction point with China." "China has an 'uncatchable' lead in energy transition technologies."
37:23 -- On crypto regulation. "It's a rapidly changing situation." The promotion of safe practices from the NY regulator DFS. Example: its recent $100m settlement with Coinbase for significant failures in its compliance program ($50m fine and $50m to invest in its compliance program). "The SEC is started to make a look of power moves to grab more jurisdiction over crypto matters, expanding to banks (ie. proposed rules on custody of crypto assets.)"
42:05 -- On restrictive crypto regulation in the US vs offshore.
46:07 -- On the rise of private markets vs. public markets. "I'd love to see more companies go public."
48:34 -- On dual-class share structures and founder control.
50:01 -- The books that have greatly influenced his life:
51:45 -- His mentors, and what he learned from them.
52:49 -- Quotes he thinks of often or lives his life by. From his mom: "Everyone needs love."
54:09 -- An unusual habit or an absurd thing that he loves: he teaches a 16-unit class on history (financial structure) to summer interns at Van Eck.
55:48 -- On his time in Silicon Valley, and economic cycles.
57:35 -- On the trend of WFH, employee mobility post-pandemic, and the future of NY as a hub for finance.
Jan Van Eck is the President & CEO of Van Eck Associates Corporation, an investment firm based in New York with about $75 billion in assets under management and 400 employees.
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You can follow Jan on social media at:
Twitter: @JanvanEck3
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/janfvaneck/
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You can follow Evan on social media at:
Twitter: @evanepstein
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
0:00 -- Intro.
1:38 -- Start of interview.
2:56 -- George's "origin story." He's based in London since 1988. About his new role at the European Corporate Governance Institute (ECGI).
7:24 -- Mike's "origin story." On his experience with ADRs and cross-listings with Latin American companies. His experience working at NYC and Mexican law firms, the World Bank, the International Finance Corporation (IFC), OECD-Latin America Roundtable on Corporate Governance and Cartica Management.
15:52 -- On the origin and focus of their book "Governance, Stewardship and Sustainability." (2nd edition 2022). Based on (and used for) the ICGN course of the same name.
20:37 -- How they define stewardship, sustainability and ESG.
27:22 -- On ICGN Global Stewardship Principles and ICGN Global Governance Principles. The G20/OECD Principles of Corporate Governance.
31:07 -- On their ESG methodology, proposed in their book.
34:52 -- The Volkswagen Dieselgate scandal and case study.
39:51 -- On two-tiered boards, employee representation on boards, and purpose of the corporation (stakeholder v shareholder visions).
43:00 -- On the politicization of governance and the "anti-ESG" trend in the U.S.
48:20 -- On large asset managers passing-through voting power to beneficial owners (see BlackRock's Voting Choice).
51:17 -- Thoughts and recommendations for directors regarding shareholder activism (from Mike Lubrano)
53:44 -- Activism in emerging markets, and/or in controlled companies.
56:58 -- Thoughts and recommendations for directors (from George Dallas).
59:20 - What are the 1-3 books that have greatly influenced your life:
George:
Mike:
01:00:51 - Who were your mentors, and what did you learn from them?
01:03:46 - Are there any quotes you think of often or live your life by?
01:05:12 - An unusual habit or an absurd thing that they love:
01:06:14 - The living person they most admire:
George Dallas is the Head of Content at the European Corporate Governance Institute (ECGI) and former Policy Director at the International Corporate Governance Network (ICGN).
Mike Lubrano is a Managing Director of Valoris Stewardship Catalysts and former Managing Director of Corporate Governance and Sustainability at Cartica Management, LLC.
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You can follow Evan on social media at:
Twitter: @evanepstein
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
0:00 -- Intro.
1:47 -- Start of interview.
2:19 -- Ann's "origin story".
4:10 -- Her background working with plaintiff law firms, and how that experienced has informed her scholarship.
7:02 -- Take-aways from the Twitter v Musk case, the "trial of the century that wasn't." "The broader lesson for me is that it's both a vindication and a condemnation of corporate law":
15:00 -- On tech layoffs, and Elon's massive layoffs at Twitter. "I don't think we have to accept the pain that he inflicts in order to get the benefits. That isn't necessary."
16:57 -- On private equity and take-private transactions. "It's unhealthy."
20:44 -- On public benefit corporations and B-corps. "They will solve nothing at all." "Some of the issues: 1) It's opt-in for shareholders, and 2) it does not have enforcement mechanisms that are remotely useful (duties are unenforceable)."
"The reasons that corporations advance shareholder wealth has very little to do with a duty of loyalty of the board and very much to do with the structure of corporations: who has voting rights -governance rights- and so forth."
28:57 -- On crypto, and the SEC v Sam Bankman-Fried case (FTX). "It's a story of defrauding investors in a private company." "The meta purpose of securities regulation is to make sure that capital is allocated efficiently throughout society. Good companies should get money, and bad companies should not get money, so that our economy can grow appropriately."
35:49 -- Litigation in private (venture-backed) companies. Questions on enforceability of information rights restrictions (Delaware section 220 books and records). "Silicon Valley operates under a degree of reputational capital." "[Generally, for these cases] to make it into court there would have to be 1) no arbitration agreement, 2) access to shareholder information rights, and 3) an employee (or other common stockholder) who thinks that there is enough money on the table [to offset] the reputation that they would get if they would sue (their employer or investors)."
41:29 -- Litigation in SPACs. "I think we have seen the end of SPACs." The Multiplan and Delman cases.
45:45 -- On the McDonald's case and the expansion of Caremark duties owed by officers. "What [the judge] hasn't decided is whether this is the board's decision to make a disciplinary decision or whether it should be instead decided by private lawsuits... now, if he changes the standard of when shareholders can sue -if he adopts a new kind of flexible standard- that would be significant, but we have no idea of whether he is going to do that."
49:46 -- On ESG, anti-ESG, and politicization of corporate governance.
56:15 -- On large asset managers passing-through voting power to beneficial owners.
59:02 - The books that have greatly influenced her life:
59:45 - Her mentors, and what she learned from them.
1:00:32 - Quotes she thinks of often or lives her life by. From Angel (1999 TV Series): "If nothing we do matters, all that matters is what we do.”
1:01:07 - An unusual habit or an absurd thing that he loves: free pizzas from Domino's (a measure of the economy!).
1:03:46 - The living person she most admires: her mom.
Ann M. Lipton is the Michael M. Fleishman Associate Professor in Business Law and Entrepreneurship, and Associate Dean for Faculty Research at Tulane University School of Law.
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You can follow Ann on social media at:
Twitter: @AnnMLipton
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You can follow Evan on social media at:
Twitter: @evanepstein
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
__
Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
0:00 -- Intro.
2:12 -- Start of interview.
3:00 -- Stephen's "origin story". His start with IRRC in Washington, DC (1988). His focus on international corporate governance.
7:01 -- The anti-Apartheid divestment campaign in South Africa. "Most people don't quite realize that in the U.S. the real corporate governance movement -what we might call today the ESG movement- stems from the campaign for anti-Apartheid sanctions and divestment." (early 1970s).
10:27 -- On the historical background of investor advocacy, and his book on Isaac Le Maire "the first short seller and shareholder activist." The conflict with the Dutch East India Company (VOC) in the early 1600s (the first joint-stock company in the world).
15:19 -- On the evolution of U.S. corporate governance and the rise of institutional investors since the late 1980s (particularly the big four: BlackRock, Vanguard, State Street and Fidelity). "[F]or most of the time (from late '80s to about 7 years ago), corporate governance has been more or less an exercise in throat clearing, a box-checking exercise, a compliance/legal matter that had to be done because of the DOL Avon Letter in 1988 [pointing out that proxy voting, like buy/hold/sell decisions, is a fiduciary act, and must be for “the exclusive benefit of plan participants."] "There was a lot of corporate governance talk, but it was at the margins."
19:27 -- What changed in large asset managers to go from "passive investors" to more active with investment stewardship. Some factors (in the last decade): 1) Influence from Europe, where they insisted that these large funds sign up for commitments such as the UN Principles for Responsible Investment, and "to demonstrate bona fides when it comes to ESG factors," 2) Many of their institutional clients were becoming more aware of the importance of ESG factors; 3) Biggest factor: rising class of millennial investors, who have a different set of expectations on their financial agents.
25:54 -- On the new policies such as from BlackRock and Vanguard to pass-through voting power to beneficial owners.
28:50 -- "One of the most exciting development in the capital markets is that in the last few decades we made a lot of progress on 1) management accountability to boards; 2) boards better equipped to oversee management; and 3) boards responsiveness to institutional investors. But the last piece of the puzzle is the accountability of institutional investors to the real sources of capital (beneficial owners) - the governance of institutional investors or stewardship governance." [see article Agency Costs of Agency Capitalism, by Gilson and Gordon (2013)] Citizen investors initiatives (to give them a voice), for example Tumelo (in the UK) or Say Technologies in the US (purchased by Robinhood).
32:30 -- On proxy advisors and the Best Practices Principles for Shareholder Voting Research and its Oversight Committee (where he was the founding Chairman until 2022). This is an example of "monitored self-regulation." Konstantinos Sergakis is now the Chair.
38:34 -- On the practice of dual-class share structures (supermajority voting structures). "A perennial issue in corporate governance." The case of Elsevier and Robert Maxwell.
42:25 -- On "corporate governance with Chinese characteristics."
44:37 -- Challenges and opportunities of corporate governance in regions such as the Middle East and Africa (where he has been active). "There has been progress at a pace that in my wildest dreams I would have not anticipated." The sovereign wealth funds are the next stage of progress, where they will go from passive to more active. Examples of stewardship from Malaysia, Singapore, Norway and South Africa.
50:25 - The books that have greatly influenced his life:
51:44 - His mentors, and what he learned from them.
53:17 - Quotes he thinks of often or live his life by. From his high school teacher "Never trust the magic of the printed word.”
53:50 - An unusual habit or an absurd thing that he loves: olive picking.
54:28 - The living person he most admires: his wife.
Stephen Davis is a senior fellow at the Harvard Law School Programs on Corporate Governance and Institutional Investors
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You can follow Stephen on social media at:
Twitter: @StephenM_Davis
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephen-davis-6282424/
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You can follow Evan on social media at:
Twitter: @evanepstein
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
0:00 -- Intro.
1:42 -- Start of interview.
3:31 -- Mario's "origin story".
9:25 -- The origin, evolution and impact of CFIUS. "The (regulatory) process is the bottle, national security is the wine." The driver of CFIUS is national security.
13:11 -- On the Foreign Investment Risk Review Modernization Act of 2018 (FIRRMA).
18:18 -- His recommendation on how boards should think about CFIUS matters. His book: "A Dealmaker’s Guide to CFIUS: Answers to Common Questions from Boards, Bankers and Investors."
21:40 -- On the new CFIUS Enforcement Guidelines (Fall 2022). "Since FIRRMA, CFIUS has been significantly resourced by the U.S. Government and today there is an independent office within CFIUS that is entirely focused on transactions that were not notified to the Committee." (see CFIUS annual reports to Congress). There are hundreds of transactions reported per year at this stage.
25:58 -- The proposed outbound investment screening regulatory framework. "[It may impact] a U.S. person sitting in a Chinese board (for example)." "The U.S. has jurisdiction over U.S. capital, U.S. persons, U.S. technology, etc and the U.S. wants to slow down adversary countries." "We will know a lot more about this framework by the end of February 2023 when the report comes out."
29:47 -- On the different approaches to industrial policies by China and the U.S. The Chips and Science Act and IRA Act of 2022.
36:36 -- On how boards should consider geopolitical risks and opportunities ("how to optimize outcomes"): Three questions to consider: 1) The U.S.- China relationship, 2) What the US is doing with its allies / What China is doing with its allies, and 3) What are national governments doing to independently enhance their own sovereignty and security resilience.
39:17 -- On US jurisdiction over U.S. foreign-listed companies. Example of Canada ordering divestment from Chinese investments in Canadian lithium companies.
43:30 -- Final thoughts for directors on geopolitics and national security issues.
44:24 - The books that have greatly influenced his life:
45:56 - His mentors, and what he learned from them.
48:20 - Quotes he thinks of often or live his life by. From his mother "This is the day the Lord has made; let us rejoice.” (psalms)
49:05 - An unusual habit or an absurd thing that he loves: early rising and journaling at a coffee shop or diner.
50:06 - The living person he most admires: his dad.
Mario Mancuso is a Partner of Kirkland & Ellis and leads the firm’s international trade and national security practice. A former senior member of the President’s national security team, Mario provides strategic and legal advice to companies, private equity sponsors, and financial institutions operating or investing across international borders.
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You can follow Mario on social media at:
Twitter: @MancusoOnline
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mariomancuso/
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You can follow Evan on social media at:
Twitter: @evanepstein
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
0:00 -- Intro.
1:50 -- Start of interview.
4:09 -- His take on the state of capital markets. From the highs of 2021 to the lows of 2022: the impact of interest rates in asset valuations.
6:59 -- On tech layoffs. "The effects on the labor market are not as large as the numbers suggest."
8:34 -- The impact of downturn on public and private investors.
10:07 -- On AI, ChatGPT and the emergence of this new technology.
12:45 -- On the crypto industry and its regulation challenges. "There is going to be more carnage, more blood on the streets." "The number of people in this industry that are willing to show you their code but refuse to show their financials should make your head spin."
20:01 -- On the SEC’s proposed climate change regulation, and his take that "The SEC Is Heading Toward a Climate Train Wreck." "I am profoundly concerned." "Investors need these climate disclosures but I'm extraordinary skeptical that the courts as currently constituted will uphold the rules that the SEC will adopt. In other words, the rules will get adopted, but they will get staid, vacated and we are going to get nothing (and I don't think that's the best result for investors, that's just wrong)."
24:36 -- Joe's climate change proposal. Instead of the SEC requiring its own climate change rules, it should require investors to disclose the data that is already in the public domain.
28:04 -- On the ESG / anti-ESG trend and the politicization of corporation governance. "I think it is simultaneously disastrous and hilarious." "The important thing to recognize is that it is all political."
30:52 -- On institutional Investors passing-through voting power to beneficial owners. "It's politically a very smart thing to do from some of these intermediaries."
32:37-- On the impact of the new SEC universal proxy rules for director elections on shareholder activism. "It will have a meaningful effect, but it will take some time to manifest itself" "It shifts power to the investor community."
33:30 -- The best corporate governance trend of 2022: boardroom diversity.
34:13 -- The worst corporate governance trend of 2022: the political whiplash.
34:54 -- The biggest corporate governance trend to watch out for in 2023 and going forward: "a combination of universal proxy and the politicization of the boardroom."
36:57 -- His take on how to deal with the politicization of the boardroom: "The short answer is that you can't generalize. Every corporation's situation is unique."
38:58 - The biggest winner in business in 2022: Prince Harry (monetizing family dysfunction!)
40:34 - The biggest looser in business in 2022: Elon Musk. "If it wasn't perfectly obvious that of all the people in the world that should not be running Twitter, he shouldn't be running it." He gives it a 43.96% chance of being in bankruptcy by this time next year.
Joseph A. Grundfest is an expert on capital markets, corporate governance, and securities litigation. Professor Grundfest founded the Stanford Securities Class Action Clearinghouse, which provides detailed, online information about the prosecution, defense, and settlement of federal class action securities fraud litigation. He launched Stanford Law School’s executive education programs and continues to co-direct Directors’ College, the nation’s leading venue for the continuing professional education of directors of publicly traded corporations. He is also a senior faculty member with the Arthur and Toni Rembe Rock Center for Corporate Governance. Additionally, he is co-founder and director of Financial Engines and a director of Kohlberg, Kravis, Roberts & Co. Before joining the Stanford Law School faculty in 1990, Professor Grundfest was a commissioner of the Securities and Exchange Commission, served on the staff of the President’s Council of Economic Advisors as counsel and senior economist for legal and regulatory matters, and was an associate at Wilmer, Cutler & Pickering. Early in his career he was a research associate at the Brookings Institution and an economist and consultant with the RAND Corporation.
If you like this show, please consider subscribing, leaving a review or sharing this podcast on social media.
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You can follow Evan on social media at:
Twitter: @evanepstein
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
0:00 -- Intro.
1:31 -- Start of interview.
1:57 -- Peter's "origin story".
2:40 -- His career prior to NACD, including at Institutional Shareholder Services (ISS). Peter joined NACD in 2000.
4:52 -- On the origin and mission of the National Association of Corporate Directors (NACD). Founded in 1977 by John Nash. Today the organization has grown to 23,000+ members.
7:02 -- About the NACD Directorship Certification (created three years ago). About 2,800 candidates have registered, and about ~1,100 have graduated with the certification.
10:38 -- On the evolution of corporate governance in the last 30 years from his vantage point. “Everything has changed [about boards] – it used to be more of an honorary position, we look it now as a profession with accountability and expectations.” The precedent of the ISS corporate governance quotient (CGQ).
14:36 -- About NACD’s Future of the American Board Report: A Framework for Governing into the Future.
20:07 -- On NACD's Summit 2022 and lessons from 2022 from a corporate governance perspective. The impact of the pandemic and getting back to in-person events.
24:29 -- About NACD's 20 chapters throughout the US. Mostly in "NFL cities."
27:53 -- On ESG and the anti-ESG trend and the politicization of corporation governance.
30:30 -- On Institutional Investors passing-through voting power to beneficial owners, retail investors and the Universal Proxy Rule. A revolution in shareholder democracy?
41:01 -- On the increasing influence of private markets and its corporate governance implications. "From NACD's 23,000 members, about 8,000 are directors of private companies." There is a lot of informationsharing between public and private company directors.
43:49 -- On the challenges of founder-led private companies. The case of FTX.
47:20 -- On dual-class share structures (supermajority voting structures). "The NACD doesn't have an official position." The example of Meta and Mark Zuckerberg. On the role of the board in non-profits. "I always recommend to go get a few independent directors for boards, because they will tell you what they are thinking (unvarnished opinions) but you have to listen to their independent advice."
52:10 -- Focus on social issues (pressure on CEOs speaking out). The framework that CEOs and boards must use to communicate their positions.
55:39 - The books that have greatly influenced his life:
57:17 - His mentors, and what he learned from them.
59:32 - Quotes he thinks of often or live his life by.
1:00:59 - An unusual habit or an absurd thing that he loves: he watches TV to unwind (noise in the background).
1:01:52 - The living person he most admires: his mother and his wife.
Peter Gleason is the President and CEO of the National Association of Corporate Directors (NACD).
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You can follow the NACD on social media at:
Twitter: https://twitter.com/NACD
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/national-association-of-corporate-directors/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/NACDVideos1
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You can follow Evan on social media at:
Twitter: @evanepstein
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
0:00 -- Intro.
1:40 -- Start of interview.
2:25 -- Lydia's "origin story".
3:35 -- On her career at Chevron, particularly as Corporate Secretary and Chief Governance Officer. She was the first woman elected Officer at Chevron.
7:22 -- On board agendas.
10:28 -- On how the Corporate Secretary and Chief Governance Officer roles have evolved in U.S. public corporations.
13:56 -- Her personal path to corporate board memberships.
24:36 -- On the evolution of shareholder engagement in large U.S. public corporations.
29:46 -- Lessons from the Exxon proxy fight with Engine No.1.
32:39 -- On ESG and the anti-ESG trend and the politicization of corporation governance.
36:28 -- On board evaluations.
43:30 -- On board committees.
47:22 -- On the FTX collapse and its lack of a board and governance generally.
49:25 - The books that have greatly influenced her life:
50:11 - Her mentors, and what she learned from them. "You've got to have a board of mentors."
53:34 - Quotes she thinks of often or live her life by. "It's 25% the decision you make and 75% what you make of the decision."
54:10 - An unusual habit or an absurd thing that she loves: She's a big KU Jayhawks fan, plus a Peloton user/fan.
55:37 - The living person she most admires: Volodymyr Zelensky (also Liz Cheney and Henry Kissinger).
Lydia Beebe is a public company corporate director and currently serves as Principal of LIBB Advisors LLC, a corporate governance consulting firm. Lydia previously held a number of senior roles at Chevron Corporation, including Corporate Secretary and Chief Governance Officer, from 1995 to April 2015. She previously was Co-Director of Stanford Institutional Investors’ Forum and Senior Counsel for Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati P.C.
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You can follow Evan on social media at:
Twitter: @evanepstein
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
0:00 -- Intro.
1:38 -- Start of interview.
2:06 -- Bob's "origin story". His professional career with PwC and management consulting globally.
4:31 -- On globalization, China and current geopolitical tensions.
6:14 -- His career post PwC. He led a venture-backed SaaS company and became an Adjunct Professor at USC.
7:28 -- About the Digital Directors Network, focused on digital and cybersecurity in the boardroom. "It's an educational/training, advocacy and advisory platform."
11:40 -- The value of digital and cybersecurity in the boardroom.
13:35 -- The background and scope of his book "Digital and Cybersecurity Governance Around the World."
15:38 -- The digital value business case for corporate boards.
17:43 -- Some of the digital and cyber governance leading practices. "It's usually around three areas: 1) Who's on the board, 2) how is the board structured around these issues, and 3) how does the board understand risk."
18:32 -- How to define a digitally savvy director. His "director framework" (8 domains). Reference to MIT research that found that "companies with digitally savvy boards had at least 34% higher performance on market cap growth, revenue growth, and ROA." Critical mass of three digitally savvy directors on one board.
21:42 -- Where to place cybersecurity in board committees. His recommendation: a separate technology and cybersecurity committee (cites examples of GM, WalMart, FedEx, Hasbro). He questions its placement in audit committees.
24:17 -- His thoughts on quotas for boards (on cybersecurity expertise). "Quota is such a dirty word [in governance circles] but they work and force the issue." "Gary Gensler was a senior advisor to Senator Paul Sarbanes, so the Statement on Proposal for Mandatory Cybersecurity Disclosures comes directly from his SOX days (he knows it works, it's a comply or explain provision)."
27:05 -- On international vs US boardroom cybersecurity practices. Skills, structure, scope.
30:06 -- On some of the techniques employed by hackers to infiltrate corporate systems.
32:16 -- On state and government level vs private corporate cybersecurity practices and collaboration.
33:59 -- Directors' oversight duties on cybersecurity and cyber insurance. "Our estimate is that only 9-10% of the economic exposure to cyber risk has been accepted or transferred to the cyber insurance risk industry [the company is on the hook for ~90% of the financial impact of this threat]." Individual liability of directors for cyber breaches (standard is high in the US). Del. Court Dismisses Cybersecurity-Related Oversight Claim Against SolarWinds Board.
38:19 -- Cybersecurity experts in the boardroom: "In US boards: 10-14%, it's inching up but it should be 100%" "For $315k per year [avg comp of S&P500 director] any corporate board can materially improve a critical control point in their cybersecurity system by putting a cyber expert on the board. It's a no-brainer, a slam dunk."
40:43 -- The "unfair" bias against CIOs and CISOs in the boardroom (as one-trick ponies).
43:49 -- "Digital and cybersecurity is part of the G in ESG, and we have not made nearly as much traction as some of the E and S folks have, so we still have some work to do."
45:05 -- "If you're a corporate director you should understand the skills, structure and scope of risk oversight that you have to address to govern these [digital and cybersecurity] issues."
45:57 - The books that have greatly influenced his life:
47:45 - His mentors, and what he learned from them: his teams and clients.
49:02 - His favorite city (and why): Hong Kong.
50:20 - Quotes he thinks of often or live his life by: Robert's Frost The Road Not Taken.
50:55 - An unusual habit or an absurd thing that she loves: "I'm a workout maniac."
51:50 - The living person he most admires: Volodymyr Zelensky.
Bob Zukis is the Founder and CEO of the Digital Directors Network and an Adjunct Professor at the USC Marshall School of Business where he teaches strategy, structured problem solving, global business issues and corporate governance.
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You can follow Bob on social media at:
Email: bob@digitaldirectors.network
Website: www.digitaldirectors.network
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobzukis/
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You can follow Evan on social media at:
Twitter: @evanepstein
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
0:00 -- Intro.
1:34 -- Start of interview.
2:28 -- Mary's "origin story". About her legal career at Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman LLP. On the influence of Toni Rembe on her board career.
9:13 -- On her transition to a board career, and lawyers as corporate directors. "Boards have prejudice against putting lawyers on boards. I think that is wrong and extremely short sighted [But I think we are starting to see a real trend of more lawyers on boards.]" The ABA and Catalyst's DirectWomen Initiative (its mission is to increase the representation of women lawyers on corporate boards.)
11:57 -- On the evolution of gender diversity at law firms. "I see progress, but probably not as fast as the most enlightened corporate environments."
13:49 -- On boardroom diversity. "In America we have a cultural norm against quotas."
19:01 -- On the evolution of shareholder engagement and the empowerment of corporate directors.
22:24 -- On the shareholder and stakeholder governance debate [BRT restatement of the purpose of the corporation 2019] "I've always thought that this was a little bit of a circular tempest in a teapot because in my mind companies need to be run for the medium to long-term interest of the shareholders."
24:23 -- On ESG and the latest "anti-ESG" trend.
25:45 -- How should [technology company] boards approach the current downturn.
29:46 -- On supervisory boards in Europe and the advantages (flexibility) of US corporate governance standards.
32:27 -- On tech companies staying private or going public. "There is a fair legitimate bias against going public now." "We've got to be clear on whether some of our regulation of public markets is worth the candle." "[But] the American economy [to be the dominant force in the world] needs both the public and private markets."
36:23 -- On private equity boards. [For extra background, see Boards 3.0 by Profs Gilson and Gordon]
40:07 -- On founder-led companies and the practice of dual-class share structures.
41:35 -- Her pitch for more lawyers on boards: "Lawyers are often phenomenal directors." "A good strategic lawyer should be a requirement on every board [but that's not how the current board world sees it]."
44:47 - What books have greatly influenced your life:
46:01 - Who were your mentors, and what did you learn from them?
46:43 - Are there any quotes you think of often or live your life by?
"Don't believe your thoughts until you really look at them."
46:53 - An unusual habit or an absurd thing that she loves: meditation (she's been doing it for 40 years)
47:46 - The living person she most admires: "A group: the women who were first into their professions"
Mary Cranston is a seasoned corporate director and attorney. She is the retired CEO and Chair Emeritus of Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman LLP. As CEO from 1999 to 2006, she expanded PWSP internationally, doubling its size and profitability. She currently serves as a director of Visa, The Chemours Company and TPG. She previously served on the public boards of MyoKardia and McAfee Corp. In addition, she serves or has served on several private and non-profit boards.
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You can follow Evan on social media at:
Twitter: @evanepstein
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
0:00 -- Intro [Evan Epstein]
1:30 -- Intro [David Beatty]
3:50 -- Start of interview.
4:55 -- Discussion on unicorns. [see research on unicorn exits].
9:17 -- On the rise of private markets.
11:57 -- On startup governance.
15:31 -- The importance of governance in downturns (in contrast to bull markets).
16:32 -- Elon Musk and his companies.
18:42 -- On layoffs in the tech industry this year.
20:05 -- How boards are adapting to the "digital tsunami" (board composition: age, 'tech savvy' directors, etc).
23:21 -- On cybersecurity in the boardroom.
29:00 -- On the surge of the electric vehicle (EV) industry and the IRA Act. Geopolitics and supply chain divestment from China.
36:26 -- The impact of the pandemic in Silicon Valley, particularly on remote work and tech migration. An opportunity for Canada.
38:36 -- On Sam Bankman-Fried (FTX collapse).
41:15 -- Innovation by large established tech companies vs entrepreneurs/startups. Zero to One and The Power Law books.
46:34 -- On dual-class share structures.
50:58 -- On climate tech and Silicon Valley.
53:39 -- B-corps and public benefit corporations. [You can also check out E14 with Frederick Alexander on this topic]
56:37 -- On ESG and shareholder activism. The Exxon Mobil proxy fight. The "anti-ESG" movement in the US (for example: Florida pulling $2B from BlackRock in largest anti-ESG divestment)
58:23 - Final words.
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David R. Beatty is a Professor at Rotman School of Management at the University of Toronto and the Faculty Director of the David and Sharon Johnston Centre for Corporate Governance Innovation.
You can find a video recording of this event [for a limited time] in this link.
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You can follow Evan on social media at:
Twitter: @evanepstein
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
0:00 -- Intro.
2:21 -- Start of interview.
3:14 -- Bill's "origin story".
6:57 -- On why he joined Vanguard in 1986, and what makes the company so special. "Intellectual rigor of Wall Street with mid-western values."
10:30 -- On Bill's board career. He first joined the Philadelphia Zoo (he stepped down this summer after 16 years) and currently serves on the boards of UnitedHealthcare Group and IBM, plus other PE and VC-backed companies and non-profit boards. The connection between public and private boards.
13:03 -- On his book Talent, Strategy, Risk: How Investors and Boards Are Redefining TSR and what made him write it. The early governance stewardship by Vanguard (Jack Brennan's letter to 450 CEOs in 2002 laying out Vanguard's governance expectations on governance matters). The Common Sense Governance Principles (2016). His work with the Raj & Kamla Gupta Governance Institute at Drexel University, where he met his co-authors Ram Charan and Dennis Carey.
17:13 -- On shareholder engagement and why directors should understand their investor base. Traditionally, the only times there would be shareholder engagement was when an activist would get involved (and how their role has evolved), and with say-on-pay. The role of permanent capital (index funds).
21:21 -- Why some of the best-run public companies operate with a private company mindset. Some advantages of private equity boards.
26:51 -- His take on dual-class stock structures. The good and the bad. "But making them permanent is a mistake."
29:30 -- The focus on Talent, Strategy and Risk (TSR) in his book:
38:46 -- On creating a capable board: board composition and expertise.
45:59 -- On the work and focus of board committees: "Talent, Comp and Execution Committee" & "Strategy and Risk Committee."
48:43 -- On the rise of Chief Human Resources Officers (CHROs). Talent and culture is critical. It has become a strategic function more than just an administrative function.
52:14 -- On how to reduce the information asymmetry between management and the board. The Netflix case study by Larcker & Tayan (2018). "This is where having a couple of domain experts on your board is important because they can at least open some doors and give ideas to pursue." You need to be creative and bring in experts to present to the board (example: cybersecurity, geopolitics, activists, buy-side analysts, venture-capitalists, etc).
56:52 -- On the new trend of large institutional investors delegating voting power to beneficial owners. "If you delegate to sovereign wealth funds or large pension funds who have staffs that can vote in a thoughtful way I see no problem with that. But the problem is delegating to individual investors (99.9% will not vote and the proxy advisors will determine how this is all done [and I don't think they do a great job.]" "I'm glad that Vanguard does the voting with its long-term value creation approach."
01:01:28 -- His take on ESG, and the distinction between shareholder and stakeholder value. The pushback from governments failing on some large macro issues, asset managers seeking new fees, and its politization. "ESG is just a subset of the shareholder and stakeholder debate." The 'E' in ESG is the most complicated because it is so tied to these very specific climate goals. I think that this is a reaction to the fact that governments have not been able to come to any agreement on some of these issues, and I'm skeptical that companies can achieve some of these goals. It's going to be very difficult for companies to manage their businesses accordingly."
01:07:16 - What are the 1-3 books that have greatly influenced your life:
01:10:22 - Who were your mentors, and what did you learn from them?
01:13:23 - Are there any quotes you think of often or live your life by?
Two last lines of Invictus poem: "I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul."
01:14:02 - An unusual habit or an absurd thing that he loves: Analog and Asimov's Science Fiction magazines.
01:14:39 - The living person he most admires:
Bill McNabb served as chairman of Vanguard from 2008 until his retirement in 2018 and served as CEO from 2008 to 2017. He is a corporate director of UnitedHealth Group and IBM. Bill also serves on the Wharton Leadership Advisory Board, the Dartmouth Athletic Advisory Board, the Advisory Board of the Ira M. Millstein Center for Global Markets and Corporate Ownership at Columbia University and is also a board member of CECP: The CEO Force for Good.
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You can follow Evan on social media at:
Twitter: @evanepstein
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
0:00 -- Intro.
2:09 -- Start of interview.
2:54 -- Susan's "origin story".
4:18 -- Stephen's "origin story".
6:24 -- The origin and mission of the KPMG Board Leadership Center. It started with the Audit Committee Institute in 1999.
12:12 -- The progress on board diversity and onboarding insights for new directors. Example: Board Readiness Program from LCDA. "Two important elements for new directors to think about: 1) to deeply understand the role of the board and how that differs from management, and 2) to deeply understand what the company needs and what is the value that the director adds that no one else either on board or management is currently providing."
14:07 -- The path to the board and director performance. In Fortune 500 companies and beyond.
19:19 -- Board oversight on climate change. In this NACD’s Governance Challenges report, Susan Angele offers areas for focus and questions to consider as boards enhance their governance to integrate climate change issues into risk, strategy, culture, values, and relationships with stakeholders.
24:54 -- On whether "climate change" experts will be recruited for corporate boards.
27:53 -- Lessons from the 2022 Proxy Season on ESG. To help boards understand and shape the total impact of the company’s strategy and operations externally—on the environment, the company’s consumers and employees, the communities in which it operates, and other stakeholders—and internally, on the company’s performance, KPMG offers a five-part framework: 1) Level Setting, 2) Assessment, 3) Integration, 4) Stakeholder Communications, and 5) Board Oversight.
31:48 -- On the "anti-ESG" trend. "You have to recognize the political play on this."
36:15 -- How should CEOs and boards approach the "S" in ESG, particularly regarding employee and social matters. From Edelman data: "Employees really want to be engaged in these issues."
42:38 -- On BlackRock (and other institutional investors) stating that a new era of “shareholder democracy” is coming with technology increasing voting power and expanding voting choice for investors (see BlackRock's Voting Choice). Thoughts on this trend: "this is an issue of concentration of power." The proposed Investor Democracy is Expected (Index) Act.
48:27 -- Final thoughts and recommendations for current and aspiring directors: "The job of a director is tougher than it was 20 years ago, but what we know from evidence today is that it is still a pretty good and important job (people are not leaving it)."
50:18 - What are the 1-3 books that have greatly influenced your life:
Stephen:
Susan:
53:44 - Who were your mentors, and what did you learn from them?
54:50 - Are there any quotes you think of often or live your life by?
56:03 - An unusual habit or an absurd thing that they love:
58:12 - The living person they most admire:
Susan Angele and Stephen Brown are Senior Advisors of the KPMG Board Leadership Center.
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You can follow Evan on social media at:
Twitter: @evanepstein
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
0:00 -- Intro.
2:10 -- Start of interview.
3:00 -- Henry's "origin story". His other book "China's Superbank: Debt, Oil and Influence - How China Development Bank is Rewriting the Rules of Finance") (2012)
5:03 -- His current role at Benchmark Mineral Intelligence.
6:09 - The origin of his book Volt Rush: The Winners and Losers in the Race to Go Green (2022).
10:09 -- On the new battery age and the origin of lithium-ion batteries for EVs.
12:53 -- On Contemporary Amperex Technology (CATL) and its founder Robin Zeng.
18:34 -- On the Chinese lithium industry and its champions Ganfeng Lithium and Tianqi Lithium. "They had a golden period where they could pick up assets globally, but now the West is catching up." Example: Government of Canada orders the divestiture of investments by foreign companies in Canadian critical minerals companies.
21:10 -- About Tianqi's $4bn acquisition of SQM's stake in Chile. [Disclosure: I wrote about this case in 2018 here, here and most recently in my latest newsletter, here.] On the future of the Lithium Triangle (Chile, Argentina and Bolivia) for the global lithium supply chain. The unclear future of lithium in Chile, the government has hinted on the creation of a new Chilean national lithium company. "It's a once in a 100-year opportunity, are they just going to sit back and lose out on market share? This opportunity does not come very often."
27:09 -- On the new US industrial policy to foster the EV and battery industry (and divest from China). The Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, CHIPS & Science Act, and the Inflation Reduction Act (“the single largest investment in climate and energy in American history”) combined will invest more than $135 billion to build America’s EV future, including critical minerals sourcing and processing and battery manufacturing. The impact for the global supply chain, particularly in Latin America, Africa and rest of the world.
33:03-- On geopolitics, ESG and sustainability of the global battery supply chain and EVs generally. The problem of greenwashing. Amnesty International's report on Cobalt in Africa (2016) "This is What We Die For" (on human rights abuses in the Democratic Republic of the Congo and the global trade in Cobalt). "Chinese consumers are also getting more environmentally conscious."
38:02 -- On the challenges of the energy transition from ICE vehicles to EVs. The importance of renewable energy. "Clean energy clusters will become very important."
40:09 -- On energy security, cleaner battery producers (example Northvolt from Sweden), the rise of Gigafactories, the shift to EVs from global OEMs (A Reuters analysis of 37 global automakers found that they plan to invest nearly $1.2 trillion in electric vehicles and batteries through 2030) and the future of jobs in this industry. "Vehicle manufacturing employment, which stands at 13.6 million globally, already employs 10% of its workforce in the manufacture of EVs, their components and batteries." (see IEA world energy employment report). "It is a race for the jobs of the future, and that's where the West has lost out. That's what making this industry so critical." "But the West will definitely catch up, I'm very optimistic about the U.S."
46:03 -- On whether the U.S. will encourage more mining in the US to bridge this gap. "The mining industry has not done a good job at convincing the public that this is what is needed. People who support clean energy find it hard to support mining. That's the crux of the issue."
48:14 -- On Tesla, and whether they will move upstream in the supply chain with more refining or mining. And their China operations and supply chain dependence.
53:19 -- The 1-3 books that have greatly influenced his life:
Other books he recommends on the battery global supply chain:
55:28 -- Who were your mentors, and what did you learn from them?
Michael Forsythe, now with the NYT. When he was in China working for Bloomberg, working with investigative journalists.
56:23 -- Are there any quotes you think of often or live your life by?
"Sooner or later...one has to take sides – if one is to remain human." by Graham Greene.
57:18 -- The person he most admires: Greta Thunberg.
Henry Sanderson is a journalist and author of Volt Rush, the Winners and Losers in the Race to Go Green. He's currently an Executive Editor at Benchmark Mineral Intelligence, the leading provider of data and information on the battery industry. Before that he covered commodities and mining for the Financial Times for seven years in London. He was previously a reporter for Bloomberg News in Beijing, where he co-authored a book about China's financial system and state capitalism, China's Superbank. He grew up in Hong Kong and lived and worked in China for seven years.
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You can follow Henry on social media at:
Twitter: @hjesanderson
__
You can follow Evan on social media at:
Twitter: @evanepstein
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
__
Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
0:00 -- Intro.
2:08 -- Start of interview.
2:45 -- Alison's "origin story".
5:07 -- Her experience in management consulting with McKinsey & Co and Kearney.
5:49 -- Her experience as CFO at Barclays Global Investors (now BlackRock) and with private equity as the managing director of Belvedere Capital, focused on investing in US banks and financial services firms. The challenges of banking post-financial crisis and Dodd-Frank (2010).
9:26 -- Her pivot to fintech and blockchain investing. Since 2014 she's been investing in crypto. She co-founded Blockchain Coinvestors with her husband Mathew Le Merle.
11:57 -- Her take on the future of blockchain "I think that it's completely inevitable that fully digital assets and fully digital payments are coming, it's just a matter of time [but timing is everything if you're an investor]." "There is no doubt in my mind that blockchain technology is a massively important component of the next generation of our global digital economy." "We will have fully digitally enabled payment and assets as part of our next generation web [some referred it as Web 3.0]."
13:38 -- On her experience with public company board service. Her first board was in 1998 with Dispatch Management Services Company [Founded in 1994 by Linda Jenkinson and Greg Kidd. DMSC was a publicly traded company that handled point-to-point delivery services]. At the time she was CFO at BGI. Since then, she has served on 22 corporate boards, over half of them public companies, the others in private companies. "It's been fascinating and I really enjoy [this work] enormously."
16:51 -- In 2011 she was invited to join the board of the Royal Bank of Scotland. That was her introduction to U.K. corporate governance. She was on the board for 9 years, because there are term limits in the U.K. [after 9 years, a director is no longer considered 'independent'].
20:25 -- On dual-class share structures adopted in the UK (against the long standing "one share, one vote" principle).
21:24-- On the role of the board in strategy and innovation. "When public companies lose a lot value, 80% of the time it's because of strategy missteps."
25:51 -- How should boards deal with crisis management. "From the crisis that I've experienced as a director, ~40% of them have been due to exogenous factors, and ~60% have been due to self-inflicted wounds (such as bad culture, personality clashes, single person failure, etc)." In the latter case, a lot of them could have been spotted earlier by a really engaged board that was connected enough to the company to understand that these things were arising."
28:21 -- On whether having more inside (executive) directors on boards impacts at all the governance of the company.
29:54 -- On the idea of having employee representatives on corporate boards of directors. "We explored this seriously at RBS, but we decided instead that a sub-committee of the board spend time on 'employee listening sessions' and we created a workers' council to connect on these matters." "I think that U.S. boards could really benefit from more listening sessions with key stakeholders."
32:47 -- On the evolution of sustainability and ESG. Her experience with Barclays Global Investors, and the vision of then CEO Patty Dunn, who questioned the idea of companies having great short term value but leaving a wake of damage that later society and/or tax payers had to pay. She posited having a more active role as stewards of long term capital for a more sustainable future. The case of RBS, going from darlings of Wall Street to almost the world's biggest bank failure. "That was a wake up call." "I am a big fan of ESG broadly defined." "I am really excited that [big institutional investors] have leaned in and are tipping this discussion."
38:58 -- On the growing influence of large institutional investors in corporate governance: "The [beneficiaries of large index funds] do not want short-term high profit at long-term costs to the economy and people's lives." "I'm very supportive of large institutional investors focusing on broader societal issues and the health of capitalism." "Can capitalism retain the trust of the people that live in a capitalist system?" "I mean, you could democratize the whole thing and say everyone has a vote but your average person is not investing the time to get really educated on these issues."
41:35 -- On the books that she's co-authored with her husband Matthew Le Merle:
44:55 -- No specific books "that have changed her life", but she's a big reader of The Economist.
45:42 -- Who were your mentors, and what did you learn from them?
47:26 -- Are there any quotes you think of often or live your life by?
From Desiderata (1927): "With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be cheerful. Strive to be happy."
48:32 -- An unusual habit or an absurd thing that you love: "Making jam with my husband, we make a killer Lemoncello and apricot jam"!
49:14 -- The person(s) she most admires: entrepreneurs from the Renaissance Entrepreneurship Center (she's a board member of this organization).
Alison Davis the Co-Founder and Chair of Blockchain Coinvestors & Fifth Era, a leading VC firm investing in blockchain and Web 3. She currently serves as an independent director at Silicon Valley Bank, Fiserv, Janus Henderson Investors, Collibra and Pacaso. She also serves as the Chair of the Advisory Board for Blockchain Capital LLC, advisor to Bitwise Asset Management and board member of the NACD Northern California Chapter.
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You can follow Evan on social media at:
Twitter: @evanepstein
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
0:00 -- Intro.
1:38 -- Start of interview.
2:06 -- Nora's "origin story".
4:33 -- How she got started on her board journey.
6:25 -- The distinctions between serving on advisory boards and private venture-backed company boards.
11:27 -- On serving on non-profit company boards. Nora has served on the boards of NACD, YWCA of Silicon Valley and the Anita Borg Institute.
13:50 -- On serving on private equity (PE) backed company boards. *Prof Ron Gilson's article on Boards 3.0.
16:34 -- On serving on public company boards. The evolution of shareholder primacy vs stakeholder capitalism.
18:05 -- Distinctions between serving on U.S. boards vs international boards. "The 'what' is very similar or the same, however the biggest distinction is the 'how'." "When I started on my first board in Europe 10 years ago there was a strong focus on 'double materiality' (a more stakeholder driven approach) which was not discussed on US boards." Nora currently serves on boards of Ericson and SUSE Linux. Thoughts on employees serving on boards.
23:17 -- The new NACD report "The Future of the American Board" (released on Sept 27, 2022). Nora served as one of the Commissioners for this report. "This initiative was created to reassess and, where needed, redefine the effectiveness of the board in response to the seismic societal, economic, technology and climate changes affecting business. "NACD established a diverse, influential group of directors and notable governance practitioners drawn from the investor, regulatory and academic communities to issue guiding principles that will help boards achieve high performance in a much more turbulent future."
26:21 -- Why all the principles flow from Principle #1: Corporate Purpose. "Shareholders are value based, not values based." "The noise is in the media."
34:02 -- Thoughts on founder-control and dual-class share structures in tech companies. "It serves a purpose at a certain time, but once you meet a threshold is it really that important? It's not one-size-fits-all. Maybe it's milestone-based or time-based sunsets." *CII's "reasonable 7-year sunset provision" position.
38:53 -- On the rise of ESG and more recent "anti-ESG" movement. "The investors are doing what's right in the long term, and I think it will prevail in the long term."
41:51 -- On the growing influence of large institutional investors in corporate governance. "Communication [both during and outside the proxy season] is the key, these investors (and the companies) are rational."
44:05 -- On the evolution of boardroom diversity. "Europe took the lead with quotas, and their representation of women on boards was surpassing the U.S." "This year about 500 board positions opened up and ~50% went to diverse (gender and minorities) candidates." "Boards are valuing heterogeneous composition."
46:29 -- The books she recommends:
47:25 -- Who were your mentors, and what did you learn from them?
48:19 -- Are there any quotes you think of often or live your life by?
"Everyone dies, but not everyone Lives" (you want to Live with a capital L)
50:23 -- An unusual habit or an absurd thing that you love: "I'm extraordinarily talented at finding things that I'm not extraordinarily talented at."
52:55 -- The person(s) she most admires: after pandemic, the front line workers.
Nora Denzel is a Silicon Valley technology executive who has served on eight public company boards and is currently an independent director of AMD, Ericsson, SUSE Linux and NortonLifeLock. She also serves on the board of the National Association of Corporate Directors (NACD) in Washington, D.C.
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You can follow Evan on social media at:
Twitter: @evanepstein
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
__
Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
0:00 -- Intro.
1:28 -- Start of interview.
2:04 -- Louis's "origin story".
4:14 -- His current role at Foley & Lardner.
5:48 -- On the question of "compromised independent directors." Reference to the Delaware case Goldstein v. Denner.
10:25 -- The higher scrutiny over independent directors in this downturn (particularly on M&A, downrounds and recaps).
14:22 -- How venture terms have changed in this environment. From "founder-friendly" to "investor-friendly." Supervoting shares, liquidation preferences and participation rights.
20:39 -- How should (independent) directors handle "empowered" founders or CEOs. "It all happens outside of the boardroom and its absolutely about relationships."
24:44 -- On the rise of ESG. "[Almost every VC termsheet] will now include a requirement to adopt a ESG policy." "It is indisputable and undeniable that this movement is very strong."
29:28 -- The increasing political pressure on management and boards. "Irrespective of politics, the single largest pressure that exists for CEOs and investors is the financial performance of the company."
31:53 -- What should directors be considering in this environment. "How to adjust in the face of different multipliers applied to revenues" and "increased risk of failing to meet the financial targets that were set out."
37:23 -- On the crypto regulatory landscape. "The meltdown of crypto prices was triggered by three big drivers: 1) interest rates (macro environment pushed capital away from riskier assets), 2) the crash of Terra/Luna stablecoin, and 3) enforcement actions from the SEC (whether tokens are securities is still not a settled question). On the plus side, Ethereum's Merge and Surge (next year). "The digital markets are here to stay."
42:34 -- What are the books that have greatly influenced your life:
44:43 -- Who were your mentors, and what did you learn from them?
45:50 -- Are there any quotes you think of often or live your life by?
"Think for yourself to decide 1) what you want, 2) what is true, and 3) what you should do to achieve #1 in light of #2." Ray Dalio.
47:10 -- An unusual habit or an absurd thing that you love: to garden.
47:58 -- The person he most admires: his mother.
Louis Lehot is a partner and business lawyer with Foley & Lardner, based in the firm’s Silicon Valley, San Francisco and Los Angeles offices. He focuses his practice on advising entrepreneurs and their management teams, investors and financial advisors at all stages of growth, from garage to global.
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You can follow Louis on social media at:
Twitter: @lehotlouis
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/louislehot/
__
You can follow Evan on social media at:
Twitter: @evanepstein
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
__
Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
0:00 -- Intro.
1:30 -- Start of interview.
2:27-- Claudia's "origin story". She was born in Taiwan and grew up in Brazil. She came to the US after college. She studied CS and later went to work for IBM, where she had a 30 year career including founding the firm's Venture Capital Group. Post IBM, she joined NEA as a venture advisor, and has served on several corporate boards.
8:31 -- On the evolution of corporate venture capital (CVC) at IBM, and the industry generally. In 2012, she was the first CVC partner to join the board of the NVCA.
11:54 -- How CVC investors fit in the boardroom of venture-backed companies ("usually via board observer seats").
15:40 -- How should boards approach the current downturn.
19:15 -- On Silicon Valley's "growth at all costs" mantra. "It's a phenomena of too much money in the market."
23:32 -- On supermajority voing stock and founder control. "VCs don't build companies, founders do."
29:25 -- The role of the board in strategy and innovation. "The strategy is owned by management, the board's role is to continuously help calibrate that strategy."
33:22 -- The oversight duties of directors relating to cybersecurity. "We can't throw enough money at it."
36:31 -- On the evolution of ESG. "It started with very positive tones where everyone was supporting it." "Good companies can do both: good financial results and good corporate social responsibility." ("this is not a new phenomenon").
39:40 -- On stakeholder governance. "I don't know who influenced who" in connection with Hubert Joly, former Chair and CEO of BestBuy (where she serves as a board member.) [Check out this interview that I did with Hubert Joly for the Sciences Po American Foundation in 2021]. "Great companies like IBM have held up its cultural values consistently for a very long time."
41:38 -- On the evolution of boardroom diversity. "The board's role is to ask questions to really challenge management to think outside of the box." "Diversity of gender, life experience, expertise or age [is critical for this purpose]." "The California boardroom diversity policies set up momentum that have helped improve people's ability to think outside of the box in terms of board composition. Hopefully this continues to happen without the need to have these laws in place."
44:26 -- How directors should think about geopolitical risks in the current environment. "You have to have a very strong local team." "The risk is considerably higher."
45:52 -- What are the 1-3 books that have greatly influenced your life:
47:07 -- Who were your mentors, and what did you learn from them? "People who care enough about me to give me very honest feedback." (difference between mentors and sponsors).
48:20 -- Are there any quotes you think of often or live your life by?
"People will forget what you said, people will forget what you do, but people will never forget how you made them feel."
49:46 -- An unusual habit or an absurd thing that you love: she loves cleaning.
50:30 -- The living person she most admires: Hillary Clinton.
Claudia Fan Munce is a venture advisor at NEA, and serves as a board member at Best Buy, CoreLogic, the Bank of the West/BNP Paribas, the Energy Impact Acquisition (SPAC) and the National Association of Corporate Directors/Northern California. She’s also a Lecturer in Management at the Stanford Graduate School of Business.
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You can follow Evan on social media at:
Twitter: @evanepstein
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
__
Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
0:00 -- Intro.
1:26 -- Start of interview.
2:01 -- Beatriz' "origin story". She was born in Cuba, grew up in NY and Miami. She was part of a NSF pilot program in Miami to "raise the next generation of scientists," starting in middle school. She learned to program computers in high school, and from there she got into Princeton where she studied computer science. She then went on to Caltech to continue her CS graduate studies. Her first job after grad school was with HP. She later founded a startup called Momenta Computers ("think of it as an iPad but in the 1990s"). She transitioned to Oracle, where she reported directly to Larry Ellison and was responsible for Oracle's open systems group. Later, she joined Aspect Communications as a CEO from 1998 to 2003. How she pivoted the company during the dotcom era and 9/11. She later became CEO of three private companies which she successfully exited, and has served on corporate boards in addition to doing some business consulting.
15:33 -- The difference between CEO coaches or mentors, and serving as a corporate director. Why it's good to separate the role of Chair and CEO. On the bright line between management and governance.
22:05 -- Distinctions between serving as an independent director in public and private (venture-backed) companies. "Both are equal amount of work, it just that the work is different."
28:41 -- On the debate between staying private for longer and going public. "Too much regulation too early will kill companies." "More companies should be going public, the incentives have shifted very much to staying private and exchanging companies between private equity firms." "There is [also too much] regulatory compliance in public companies and that's become a disincentive."
31:51 -- Recommendations for directors in private venture-backed companies facing layoffs, down-rounds, recaps or fire-sales. "Cash is king." "It is possible to get yourself into a situation where the company is unsolvable."
40:25 -- On Silicon Valley's "growth at all costs" mantra. "It's only appropriate for a very small number of companies, not the other 99% of companies." The example of Amazon.
44:17 -- The role of the board in strategy and innovation.
48:34 -- On the evolution of ESG. "Environmental is a totally different topic than social, so I view [the acronym of] ESG as a failure of marketing." "It lends itself to polarization because you have put two completely unrelated things in the same bucket". On carbon emission disclosures: "Folks will start figuring out how to monetize the metrics that make it look like you're meeting your metrics but you're not actually doing that."
54:00 -- "The data for growth of cybercrime went from $3 trillion in 2015 to an expected ~$10-11 trillion in 2025."
55:29 -- How to add ESG expertise to the boardroom. Cybersecurity got added in the audit committee. Most companies have added the "S" in ESG in NomGov or Comp committees (more related to human capital management). "I would envision that 10 years from now we will not have ESG as a thing, the E and S will be separate since they don't belong in the same bucket."
1:00:28 -- On the evolution of boardroom diversity.
1:06:15 -- What are the 1-3 books that have greatly influenced your life:
1:09:18 -- Who were your mentors, and what did you learn from them?
1:13:53 -- Are there any quotes you think of often or live your life by?
- "Be the change you want to see in the world" (attributed to Mahatma Gandhi)
1:14:35 -- An unusual habit or an absurd thing that you love: she grows roses.
1:15:31 -- The living person she most admires: currently, Volodymyr Zelenskyy ("he has backbone and he is willing to be in the lead in a dangerous and highly volatile situation but you can't get people behind you if you're hiding in the bushes and I think that is admirable.")
Beatriz Infante currently serves on several public and private company boards including 1010Data, Emulex, Ultratech, Sonus Networks, Liquidity Services (NASDAQ:LQDT), Ribbon Communications (NASDAQ:RBBN) and PriceSmart (NASDAQ:PSMT). She's also the CEO of Business Excelleration, a consulting firm founded to help the next generation of CEO’s excel and accelerate their company’s growth.
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You can follow Evan on social media at:
Twitter: @evanepstein
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
__
Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
0:00 -- Intro.
1:40 -- Start of interview.
2:20 -- Kris' "origin story".
5:20 -- Jamie's "origin story".
7:30 -- About the EY Americas Center for Board Matters. It has three mandates:
10:19 -- Deep dive into their article "Four key takeaways from the 2022 proxy season."
10:58 -- On E&S Shareholder Proposals. "While there were more proposals in these categories, support for them became more targeted."
14:34 -- Focus on climate risk/energy transition, DEI and corporate political responsibility.
17:07 -- On boardroom diversity trends (including legal challenges to SB-826 and AB-979 in California and the Nasdaq Diversity Rules). "Today, 1/4 of the Fortune 100 directors is racially diverse and 1/3 is gender diverse; 61% of SP 1500 companies have 3 or more women on boards (up from 28% in 2018, that's a 30 point increase in three years)." "We have seen tremendous progress on all aspects of board diversity."
19:37 -- Support for directors remained stable despite signals that opposition would increase, with average votes against S&P 500 directors inching up to 4.2% compared with 3.9% over the same time period in 2021. "This year average voting opposition for nominating and governance chairs at S&P 500 companies was 8.2%, up from 4.6% in 2017. Similarly, average voting opposition for compensation committee chairs at S&P 500 companies was 7.3%, up from 3.8% over the same period. In addition, opposition to independent board leaders (i.e., independent chair, lead or presiding director) rose to 7.0% from 4.3%."
"The stakes for directors are really going up, and that's including around ESG matters." "Overall trends we think are pointing to director votes as a lever of change that investors may be more inclined to use going forward to express their views and accelerate their stewardship goals."
23:28 -- On investor pressure and pending SEC regulations (on climate change). "All of this is a wake-up call for directors."
27:00 -- On adding ESG expertise in the board. "I think it's critical for companies with board oversight to think about materiality." "Materiality assessments and matrices have been a good outcome of the ESG dialogue."
29:34 -- On institutional investors, stakeholders and the "disconnect" with the Anti-ESG political push-back.
36:03 -- On the new Universal Proxy Rules for Director Elections.
38:51 -- On shareholder engagement. "We really see investor engagement as a vital tool for companies to understand their key shareholders' perspectives on the company's governance and its strategy and also an opportunity to enhance the company's communication and deepen those relationships."
42:57 -- On shareholder activism. "We counsel boards to run different programs to think like an activist." "Companies need to be smart about what drives their own TSR." "Activists will often look at the board, to bring different dissidents and/or target individual directors." "There is a deep scrutiny around the E&S agenda areas."
45:51 -- On recommendations for directors in these volatile times, and how to increase the board’s impact in volatile times. "It's important to have a framework in place grounded in the company's purpose and its values so that it's ready in terms of how they are going to make decisions, what issues they are going to weigh-on, what stakeholders they need to think about, and what constituencies they are hearing from."
49:28 -- On boards adding value (strategy and innovation).
51:53 - What are the 1-3 books that have greatly influenced your life:
Kris:
Jamie:
53:30 - Who were your mentors, and what did you learn from them?
55:16 - Are there any quotes you think of often or live your life by?
56:28 - An unusual habit or an absurd thing that they love:
57:41 - The living person they most admire:
Kris Pederson is the EY Americas Center for Board Matters Leader. Jamie Smith is the EY Americas Center for Board Matters Investor Outreach and Corporate Governance Specialist.
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You can follow Evan on social media at:
Twitter: @evanepstein
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
__
Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
0:00 -- Intro.
1:23 -- Start of interview.
3:32 -- Adam's "origin story". He grew up in southern California where he attended UCSD and graduated from UCLA. In college he became an activist focusing on the conflict in Darfur, Sudan, and developed a "targeted divestment" model. After college he became a social entrepreneur based in Washington, DC.
4:06 -- His decision to pursue a JD/MBA from UC Berkeley. While in grad school "he fell in love with the startup tech scene" and during business school he tried to start his own startup but that's where he learned that "it doesn't matter how good your idea is when you don't have a good team and good execution." He then joined Gunderson Dettmer as a corporate associate supporting tech founders.
7:14 -- Adam's new role as Assistant Dean for Executive Education and Revenue Generation at UC Berkeley’s School of Law. How his initial work with 500 Startups with the BCLB sparked more executive education programs.
9:24 -- On the origin and mission of The Independent Director Initiative.
12:20 -- What makes corporate governance in private venture-backed companies different to public companies. Explaining VC University (a partnership between Berkeley Law, NVCA and Venture Forward).
15:42 -- The Academic Partners of the Independent Director Initiative:
- Berkeley Law Executive Education;
- Berkeley Law Center for Law and Business;
- Ira M. Millstein Center for Global Markets and Corporate Ownership at Columbia Law School;
- UC Davis School of Law;
- UC Hastings Law Center for Business Law;
- Institute for Law & Economics at the University of Pennsylvania;
- Silicon Valley Executive Center at Santa Clara University;
- Rowling Center at SMU Dedman School of Law;
- Rock Center for Corporate Governance at Stanford University;
- Stanford Center for Racial Justice at Stanford Law School; and
- Lowell Milken Institute for Business Law & Policy at UCLA School of Law.
- University of Washington School of Law
The Organizational Partners of the Independent Director Initiative:
- Ascend;
- BLCK VC;
- BoardList;
- Bolster;
- Corporate Directors Forum;
- The Fourth Floor;
- HBCUvc;
- Him for Her;
- LCDA;
- National Black MBA Association;
- National Venture Capital Association;
- NxtWork
- Venture Forward.
18:07 -- On the interest and number of applicants to the program (~500 applications, 80 got selected in first cohort).
19:21 -- On fiduciary duties of directors in venture-backed companies (including dual-fiduciary conflicts). Role of independent directors, and boardroom diversity in private venture-backed companies. The Trados case (2013).
38:43 -- The evolution of private markets and how its regulation may impact corporate governance.
40:06 -- Take-aways from the program: 1) more education is needed for directors of venture-backed companies generally (beyond just independent directors), and 2) it was refreshing to see such a diverse and qualified group of executives that could serve on corporate boards.
41:56 -- Where can people learn more and/or apply for the next cohort of the Independent Director Initiative: independent.venturecapitaluniversity.com
42:57 -- Benefits for participants beyond just the two days of the program. Placements.
45:27 - Some of the books that have greatly influenced his venture career:
45:51 - Who were your mentors, and what did you learn from them (regarding this program)
46:26 - Are there any quotes you think of often or live your life by?
"You don't have to see the whole staircase, just take the first step." Martin Luther King, Jr.
46:26 - An unusual habit or an absurd thing that he loves: walking 40min for his commute. "Owning your downtime."
48:55 - The living person he most admires: his wife.
Adam Sterling is the Assistant Dean for Executive Education and Revenue Generation at UC Berkeley’s School of Law and the Executive Director of the Berkeley Center for Law and Business.
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You can follow Adam on social media at:
Twitter: @adambsterling
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adambsterling/
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You can follow Evan on social media at:
Twitter: @evanepstein
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
0:00 -- Intro.
1:30 -- Start of interview.
3:32 -- Santi's "origin story". He was born and grew up in Buenos Aires, Argentina. "The year 1983 was a symbolic year in Argentina because it's the year that democracy came back to the country." "My generation was tainted by two events: the hyperinflation of 1989 and the collapse of 2001 (peso devaluation and bank deposit freezes)."
5:11 -- Argentina's strange political case.
7:24 -- Santi's professional background going from gaming, to founding "Partido de la Red" (the "Net Party") in 2012 - a political party in Argentina (inspired by Giorgio Jackson), and his pivot to crypto.
14:04 -- His endeavors with Democracy Earth Foundation and UBI (Universal Basic Income through the Ethereum blockchain). The impact of Bitcoin and the new generation of builders in Argentina, with global leaders such as Decentraland. The strong adoption of crypto in countries like Argentina, Venezuela and Cuba: "There is a real need for crypto in countries that need an alternative."
16:12 -- The connection of crypto with corporate governance. His interest on voting "we realized that whoever controls the registry of voters can decide the outcome of elections." The concept of Proof of Humanity ("the protocol got activated in March 2021 and it has had 50 proposals since then." How voting works in this DAO. "You see how contested the positions are to the extent of how people are willing to cheat in order to win."
23:19 -- Explaining DAOs (Decentralized Autonomous Organizations). Different DAO applications. Token voting. On The DAO hack (2016).
25:59 -- On the evolution of DAOs. On Vitalik Buterin (co-founder of Ethereum): "I think he's today's most inspiring leader in technology, by far. In the same rank as Elon Musk, and many other great ones." "A lot of the [crypto] community looks up to him as a role model who really understands what it means to lead through the process of creation of a decentralized network." "It's a very counter-intuitive exercise in leadership because you actually need to reject being in control, in order to gain legitimacy." "The role that founders play in these networks I think is a determinant factor in the outcome of how projects evolve over time." "Nothing ever begins decentralized, it needs to be progressively decentralized throughout time." "Building institutionality in cyberspace I think has tremendous power for coordination of humans and capital in a global, more legitimate way."
28:46 -- On the role of founders, contrast between 'traditional' founder-controlled startups and new decentralized crypto projects. On Vitalik's founder's take in a reply to Balaji Sirinivasan's book the Network State. Santi has personally dealt with some of these founder debates, he's currently a Mission Board Member at Proof of Humanity, elected by the community.
32:32 -- On the contrast of "corporate governance" and "crypto or DAO governance". "One of the most interesting projects in the space right now, I think is a project called Kleros, a decentralized arbitration service for disputes of the new economy." "They work as oracles that bring into the blockchain human judgment, based on a drafted policy or guideline." This is very important for enforcement, and to audit the decision process. On-chain governance vs Off-chain governance. The cases of Aragon and Moloch DAO (founded by Ameen Soleimani). "In Proof of Humanity, we don't want voting to be on-chain, because it makes it expensive to vote. The purpose of voting is to be an alternative to economic incentives. So voting needs to happen off-chain for voting to remain free [and] a right." Snapshot as the off-chain voting mechanism. Kleros' Governor solution.
42:18 -- On Proof of Humanity (~16,630 profiles), its DAO, and UBI. "Argentina and Brazil are two of the leading adopters of UBI right now." Proof of Integrity DAO (promoting technological inclusion).
47:44 -- On the current "crypto crash", the cases of Terra/Luna, Celsius. "You can see the ripples of Terra going down throughout the industry, it led to the Celsius and 3AC collapse... you can see the dominoes falling in a very clear way."
55:12 -- On the advantage of understanding how to code. [reference to Vitalik's visit to Buenos Aires in his podcast "Por Qué No Te Habré Hecho Caso" (a leading crypto podcast in Spanish]
57:10 - Some of the books that have greatly influenced his life:
59:44 - Who were your mentors, and what did you learn from them?
Emiliano Kargieman, now CEO and founder of Satellogic.
*story of Vitalik Buterin's visit to Buenos Aires in Dec of 2021.
*on El Salvador's Bitcoin adoption by President Nayib Bukele.
01:08:22 - Are there any quotes you think of often or live your life by?
"Sic transit gloria [Mundi]" (Latin for "Glory Fades" or "thus passes the glory of the world") *he first heard about it in Wes Anderson's movie Rushmore (1998).
01:09:23 - An unusual habit or an absurd thing that he loves: Iglesia Maradoniana!
01:10:31 - The living person he most admires: his brother Liniers, a famous Argentinean cartoonist. "It was like growing up with Walt Disney."
Santi Siri is the Founder of Democracy Earth Foundation, a non-profit organization backed by Y Combinator that built Universal Basic Income (UBI) on Ethereum and launched Proof of Humanity, where he serves as a Mission Board Member. He was the founder of "Partido de la Red" (the "Net Party") in Argentina, and is the currently the host of the podcast "Por Qué No Te Habré Hecho Caso", focusing on crypto (in Spanish). He has been featured on Wired, Time and many other media outlets.
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You can follow Santi on social media at:
Twitter: @santisiri
UBI token: @ubidoteth
Proof of Humanity DAO: @PoHDAO
Democracy Earth: @DemocracyEarth
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You can follow Evan on social media at:
Twitter: @evanepstein
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
0:00 -- Intro.
1:47 -- Start of interview.
2:39 -- Sandra's "origin story". She was born and grew up in Sao Paulo, Brazil. After graduating from UNIP with a degree in communications she worked as a journalist for 10 years. She later transitioned to executive roles. In 1995, she was invited by Bengt Hallqvist to join a group to discuss issues impacting boards in Brazil. "She had nothing to do with boards at the time." "[B]ut she fell in love with the topic." That led to the creation of the Brazilian Institute of Board Members, rebranded the Brazilian Institute of Corporate Governance five years later.
10:06 -- On founding her firm Better Governance in 2005 "to be fully dedicated to corporate governance".
12:20 -- On her book "The Black Box of Governance" (2021) "The book presents a guide to behavioral tools enabling directors and executives to confidently navigate the boardroom, improving interactivity and the efficiency of the decision-making process."
19:13 -- On the evolution of corporate governance in Brazil in the last 25 years. Overview of the Novo Mercado (created in 2000). At the time this McKinsey report was influential. The Brazilian corporate law was revised in 2001. The first company to be listed in Novo Mercado was only in 2002 (the market was slow to adopt it). The year 2007 was a record year for IPOs in Brazil. In this period "Brazil was a benchmark" for the region. "But then there was a plateau, a stagnation."
25:57 -- About the Brazilian Corporate Governance Code (for Listed Companies). She started this process in 2013 when she was Chair of the IBGC with the formation of "The GT Interagentes" (Interagents Working Group) comprised of 11 of the most important agencies related to the capital markets. There were two observing entities: CVM (Brazilian securities regulator) and BNDES (Brazilian development bank).
29:32 -- On the influence of the Brazilian Corporate Governance Code and the state of Novo Mercado today.
34:48 -- About the Lava Jato (Car Wash) Investigation, Petrobras and corruption in Brazil.
36:09 -- On the governance of state-owned enterprises. "For me, it doesn't work."
40:27 -- About Crisis-Resilient Boards: Lessons from Vale (article published on Harvard Law School Corporate Governance Blog) and latest ESG trends in Brazil (including the SEC's suing Vale for making false and misleading claims). "Nothing resists the culture that you have installed."
51:00 -- On ESG in Brazil. "The international institutional investors are the ones really leading and raising the bar." "For me, I'd be happy when the time comes where we would no longer need to use this acronym, it should [just] be embedded in strategy." "The G (in ESG) is the driver of everything."
57:04 -- On the future of corporate governance in Brazil. "The drivers are both fear and greed." "Governance may have to change profoundly [particularly] given the governance models of startups and scaleups. We may have to rethink flexibility in governance models."
01:02:28 - Novels that have greatly impressed her:
*Corporate governance books that have greatly influenced her:
01:04:57 - Who were your mentors, and what did you learn from them?
01:06:00 - Are there any quotes you think of often or live your life by?
01:06:48 - An unusual habit or an absurd thing that she loves: dancing!
Sandra Guerra is the founder of Better Governance and has served on the boards of listed, closed, family-controlled and state-controlled companies as well as of non-profit organizations both in Brazil and abroad. She was one of the founding members of the Brazilian Institute of Corporate Governance (IBGC). She's the author of “The Black Box of Governance” published by Routledge in 2021.
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You can follow Evan on social media at:
Twitter: @evanepstein
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
0:00 -- Intro.
1:34 -- Start of interview.
2:04 -- Derek's "origin story". He grew up in Chicago and graduated from WUSTL with a degree in applied math and an MBA in finance. From there he went to Capital One, "at the time it was at the forefront of making decisions with data". He then got his law degree from Stanford Law School (Class of '04). After graduating he joined WLR&K. From there he moved to hedge funds including Scoggin Capital (NY) and then Voce Capital (SF/Bay Area). In 2015, he joined Camberview Partners (now PJT Camberview) to head its activism defense practice. In 2019, he joined as a partner and co-chair of Sidley Austin's shareholder activism practice.
8:03 -- On what makes Derek's practice at Sidley Austin distinctive: "this is all we do." "We've seen over 100 proxy contests over the last 5 years."
10:05 -- On this year's proxy season and activist campaigns. "We're back at pre-Covid levels, both in amount and mix of activism." "The reported campaigns are just the tip of the iceberg (many situations get resolved before they reach the public's eye)."
14:30 -- The impact of COVID-19 in the activism realm: "it was a very quick slow-down."
16:54 -- Why activists and companies continue to favor settlements over drawn-out proxy fights. (Per Lazard's H1 2022 Review of Shareholder Activism "[C]ontinuing 2021’s trend, a historically high proportion of Board seats (91% of the 75 total Board seats won) were secured via settlement agreements."
21:20 -- Activism in different size of companies (small, mid and large or mega caps).
23:13 -- Some take-aways from the Exxon Mobil case (generally): "Size is not a defense, and use of ESG by activists as a core thesis." On the influence of the large institutional investors ("only a few individuals that control a big part of the vote.") [See The Future of Corporate Governance Part I: The Problem of Twelve by John Coates, 2018).
28:53 -- On the impact of the current market downturn in activism. Targeting tech companies.
32:40 -- On activism targeting tech companies that are founder controlled (sometimes with dual-class share structures.) "Independent directors play a big and important role."
35:52 -- On contested M&A (hostile take-overs).
38:34 -- The impact of universal proxy cards in contested director elections. [See Sidley Austin's position on this topic]
42:47 -- Take-aways from shareholder proposals from this year's proxy season.
44:24 -- Take-aways for directors (generally) from this year's proxy season. "The most important thing is universal proxy and what it will do to shareholder activism: there will be a much deeper focus on skills sets of individual directors (impacting Nom-Gov committee.)" "Be your own activist."
46:22 -- On board diversity in shareholder activism.
47:13 -- A book that has greatly influenced his life: "Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman!" by Ralph Leighton and Richard Feynman (1985).
48:45 -- A quote he thinks of often or lives his life by: "Think for Yourself." (a Beatles song).
50:07 -- An unusual habit or an absurd thing that he loves: watching 5min clips in YouTube with his kids (space and astrophysics related). From these, emerged his new favorite animal: Tardigrade.
51:38 -- The living person he admires: Nate Silver (because "he's representative of somebody who uses information, evidence and data to guide decision-making.")
Derek Zaba is a partner in the Palo Alto and New York offices and co-chairs Sidley’s Shareholder Activism practice. He counsels companies on a variety of matters, including activism defense/proxy contests, activism preparedness, takeover defenses, shareholder engagement and corporate governance.
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You can follow Evan on social media at:
Twitter: @evanepstein
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
0:00 Intro.
1:37 Start of interview.
3:03 Francine's "origin story". She grew up in Chicago and graduated from Purdue in accounting but "she hated it." She began in internal audit at Chicago’s Continental Illinois National Bank and Trust. She later worked with KPMG/BearingPoint in the early 1990s. She also worked at JP Morgan where she focused on Y2K risk. Post Sarbanes Oxley she worked at PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP until 2006. She then pivoted as an investigative reporter and feature writer. At MarketWatch, and for The Wall Street Journal and Barron’s, McKenna reported on public company accounting, fraud and financial investigations, and the potentially dubious financial reporting practices of pre-IPO companies. She also started teaching at different universities. She has now joined full-time as a Lecturer at University of Pennsylvania Wharton Business School.
17:53 On Ernst & Young’s $100 million penalty by the SEC for employees cheating on CPA ethics exams and misleading investigation. To put this case into context, it's important to understand KPMG's case from 2019 ($50 million penalty by the SEC). Note this teaching case study on the KPMG/PCAOB scandal.
24:50 Criminal convictions in KPMG case.
26:01 EY's role in misleading the investigation of the SEC.
31:38 On KPMG receiving its largest UK fine (£14.4M) for providing false information about its audits of Carillion and Regenersis. On why the "Big 4 Audit Firms" are "Too Big to Fail."
33:16 What's really going on with the Big 4 audit firms? Audit services vs consulting services. "When there is tension between professionalism and commercialism, [the latter] will always win out." "You cannot restrain the heartless except via enforcement."
37:50 On lessons for directors in frauds of private companies. "I use Theranos as a warning case for students in accounting: it's the canary in the coalmine in case the audit profession doesn't evolve." There were three audit firms involved in the Theranos case: EY at the beginning but then walked away, then KPMG until they had a dispute about stock option valuations (staying only to do consulting), and PwC did forensic work winding down the company. None of them audited the firm, they only provided services. "They [the audit firms] made more money, with less liability, by providing other services [actively choosing not to provide auditing services.]" "Private companies avoiding going public [the deeper scrutiny] is the shape of things to come." How the JOBS Act stripped away some of the scrutiny over emerging growth companies [EGCs]. Some, like SEC Commissioner Hester Peirce, are in favor of this lighter regulatory approach.
47:22 On whether unicorns require a stricter regulatory framework. "We are seeing this [laissez-faire] attitude to the max in the crypto industry."
50:00 On whether Sarbanes Oxley had a negative effect on the US IPO market. "We should not have marginal/shady companies in the public markets." On the negative effect of relaxing the rules in the JOBS Act. "We should be talking about the quality of companies, not the quantity of listings."
55:26 On the difference between valuations (in private companies) and marketcap (in public companies). "I'm a big believer in the power of short sellers and activist investors to highlight [price inefficiencies and fraud] because they put their money where their mouth is." "The SEC has been very disappointing in both Republican and Democratic administrations in terms of actually calling accounting fraud by its name." On the role of whistleblowers.
01:04:02 On the rise (and increasing political polarization) of ESG. "I'm cynical towards it, firms are looking to get a piece of clients' wallets." "The trend first emerged in Europe with firms providing side audits like carbon emissions." "My head is tainted with the idea that it's all a big marketing ploy." The audit mandate in the proposed SEC's climate change disclosure rules. On the proxy proposals (like Exxon's) and greenwashing.
01:10:28 - Three books that have greatly influenced her life:
01:13:18 - Who were your mentors, and what did you learn from them?
From her time at Continental Illinois:
01:15:03 - Are there any quotes you think of often or live your life by?
01:16:12 - An unusual habit or an absurd thing that he loves: collecting metal objects.
01:17:47 - The living person she most admires: Judge Jed S. Rakoff, Jordan Peele.
Francine McKenna is a full-time Lecturer at University of Pennsylvania Wharton Business School. She teaches ACCT 611 and 613, Introduction to Financial Accounting for MBAs. She is also an independent writer and commentator and authors the newsletter The Dig, where she scrutinizes accounting, audit and corporate governance issues at public and pre-IPO companies.
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You can follow Francine on social media at:
Twitter: @retheauditors
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/francinemckenna/
Substack: https://thedig.substack.com/
__
You can follow Evan on social media at:
Twitter: @evanepstein
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
__
Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
0:00 Intro.
1:34 Start of interview.
2:12 Keir's "origin story". He grew up in the Bay Area and went to high school in Oakland where he ran track and got a scholarship to go to Ohio State. After realizing he wasn't going to be an Olympian, he decided to study law at U Penn. When he graduated in 1999, he joined the SEC where, among other matters, he was part of the shareholder proposals taskforce which led him on the path of corporate governance. After 6 years at the SEC, he joined Covington & Burling where he practiced for about 13 years. In his last year at Covington he worked on the Uber investigation, after which he was hired to join the company as Associate General Counsel for Corporate (where he led the IPO, the company's corporate governance and ESG programs). He later got promoted to Deputy GC. He joined Broadridge Financial Solutions as Chief Legal Officer in 2021.
5:55 Keir's role on the governance assessment for the Holder Report in 2017 [where his firm recommended that Uber focus on four prevailing themes with regard to taking the following remedial measures: tone at the top, trust, transformation, and accountability]. His headline: "Governance directly and unequivocally impacts value." "For me, Uber is the quintessential example for that." "At that time, Uber was king of the world: the largest and most valuable Unicorn, rapidly expanding around the world, they had radically changed how people got around." "Uber's scandal started with Susan Fowler's blog post (which indicated a culture in need of change) and the #DeleteUber campaign post travel ban fiasco in NYC." "These events set the company into a spiral, where they had to address these governance and cultural issues in order to thrive and survive."
13:40 On Silicon Valley's "growth at all costs" and "founder empowerment" culture, and the unique distinctions between private vs public corporate governance practices: "The real question in my mind is has Silicon Valley learned its lesson? Have the VCs learned?" "Here is the truth of it: for every Theranos, Uber or WeWork, there is a Facebook, and let's be very candid here, FB is still very successful - if you were an original investor in FB you have done very well for yourself - despite the company not embracing the best corporate governance practices [and yet FB is still thriving]." "[Despite some of the governance scandals in tech companies] there is certainly more awareness now about how corporate governance can impact value."
19:07 On the evolution of corporate governance and the growing influence of institutional investors. Its impact on private venture-backed companies: "There must be a governance transition based on the growing number of investors participating in the company's evolution (particularly if/when the company goes public)."
25:15 On the history and focus of Broadridge Financial Solutions.
27:50 On the role of technology, Blockchain, Meme Stocks and Proxy Voting. The Delaware Vice-Chancellor Travis Laster Speech at CII: "The Block Chain Plunder: Using Technology to Clean Up Proxy Plumbing and Take Back the Vote." (2016) The SEC's Proposal to Reduce Risks in Clearance and Settlement. "I'm not sure blockchain will be the technological solution that everyone is embracing."
33:36 On proxy contests ("the level of proxy contests seems lower than what we would have expected."), and the new SEC rules on universal proxy cards. This rule will start applying this August ("will it meaningful increase the number of proxy contests? It's an open question at this point.")
40:30 Keir's thoughts on boardroom diversity, including SB-826 and AB-979 getting struck down in California Courts: "I personally would not read too much into those [court decisions in California] for two reasons: 1) Spinning in the wind and 2)
"the horse has left the barn" on the topic of boardroom diversity." "Investors, employees, customers and the general public all care about the composition of a board from a diversity perspective."
45:05 His thoughts on the SEC's current agenda. "There is no doubt that there is a very pro-enforcement agenda in place right now." "There is a new Sheriff in town." The EY Enforcement Action (where EY had to pay a $100M penalty for employees cheating on CPA ethics exams and misleading investigation). Dissent from Commissioner Hester Pierce.
51:13 On the politicization of boards and how companies and boards have to deal with hot (and controversial) social topics. Assembling a group of employees to handle how, when and what should the company address about these issues. "It's an incredibly hard challenge for GCs and other senior executives." "Employees, customers and investors expect you to address these issues." "How you communicate is super important." His view on the "Mission-focused company" approach taken by Coinbase: "For me, that probably means that I will never be a Coinbase customer because I care deeply about the company to whom I give my money." "I think of Procter & Gamble as the gold standard on how to communicate effectively around these thorny questions."
58:04 A book that has greatly influenced his life:
- The Autobiography of Malcom X, by Malcom X and Alex Haley (1965)
59:00- Who were your mentors, and what did you learn from them?
1:00:35 - Are there any quotes you think of often or live your life by?
- From Trillion Dollar Coach (biography of Bill Campbell) by Alan Eagle, Eric Schmidt and Jonathan Rosenberg (2019): “Leadership is not about you, it’s about service to something bigger: the company, the team. Bill believed that good leaders grow over time, that leadership accrues to them from their teams. He thought people who were curious and wanted to learn new things were best suited for this. There was no room in this formula for smart alecks and their hubris.”
1:02:17 - An unusual habit or an absurd thing that he loves: "Zombie Apocalypse everything!"
1:03:04 - The living person he most admires: A lot of people but it's a tie: AOC (on the way she uses social media) and Bill Gates (on his transition from business to making a better world).
Keir Gumbs is the Chief Legal Officer of Broadridge Financial Solutions, Inc., where he oversees the legal, compliance and physical security teams. Prior to joining Broadridge, Keir served as Deputy General Counsel and Deputy Corporate Secretary of Uber. Before Uber, Keir was a Partner for nearly a decade at Covington & Burling. Keir’s career includes six years of service with the SEC, where, immediately prior to joining Covington & Burling in 2005, he served as Counsel to SEC Commissioner Roel C. Campos.
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You can follow Evan on social media at:
Twitter: @evanepstein
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
0:00 Intro.
1:45 Start of interview.
2:40 Ana's "origin story". She was born and raised in Rio do Janeiro, Brazil. She got degrees in law and economics, and started her career in sales at IBM in Brazil in the mid-1980s. In 1992 she moved to the U.S. to get an MBA at Northwestern University. That led to a career of over 30 years in technology, M&A and global business transformations. A couple of years ago she retired from her last job as CEO, and she embarked in her board "portfolio career": public, private and non-profit boards, in addition to teaching and doing some advisory work for CEOs.
4:55 Her advice for aspiring directors: "Think of your board journey as any career." She started serving on non-profit boards and worked her way up to private and public companies. Her first public company board was CME Group. She's served on 7 public company boards, plus many private and non-profit boards.
7:46 Distinctions on serving on public/private/non-profit boards ("even within those buckets there are significant differences.") Her other current public company boards: First Internet Bancorp (NASDAQ: INBK), Carparts.com (NASDAQ: PRTS); Amyris (NASDAQ: AMRS), and Pembina Pipeline (NYSE: PBA). When she thinks about board opportunities, she thinks about three things:
12:56 Her experience serving on the board of Eletrobras, a major Brazilian state-owned power generation company. "There is always a give and take --what you offer and what you learn-- and that to me is what makes board service so interesting."
16:27 Her thoughts on the evolution of ESG and DEI. Her article "Cutting Through the ESG Noise: A Practical Framework for Corporate Boards" with Cigdem Oktem, Regional Leader, EY Center for Board Matters.
22:15 Her thoughts on boardroom diversity, SB-826 and AB-979 getting struck down in California Courts. "I wish we didn't have to rely on quotas, but the truth is that when left in the hands of nom/gov chairs, board chairs and companies and executives, [progress] was just not happening."
"All I can hope for is that some halo effect [since SB-826] has demonstrated that having diversity and inclusion on boards is a good business practice."
24:41 On the progress of Latinos on boards. She serves on the board of the Latino Corporate Directors Association (LCDA), co-Chairs its Latino Corporate Directors Educational Foundation (LCDEF) that delivers on the BoardReady Institute (BRI).
28:20 On the politicization of boards. "Over the last three years there has been extreme politicization globally, not only in the U.S." "I am a big proponent of full disclosure on where you stand as an institution and/or corporation."
32:18 Her thoughts on Coinbase's position (a "mission driven company") and Salesforce (strong proponent of stakeholder capitalism). "Both companies took a stand, and that is what's important."
34:52 Her take on governance practices in the tech industry. On the role of experience and self-awareness in leadership.
37:17 Discussion of founder-led tech companies, governance consequences, and reverse bias discrimination. "Revenue is vanity, profit is sanity but cash is reality." "Sometimes there is too much of a good thing." "What is lacking is appreciation and respect for experience."
44:52 The 3 books that have greatly influenced her life:
46:06- Who were your mentors, and what did you learn from them? "I have had so many, I apply a 360 mentorship model" "I crave feedback and mentorship all the time."
47:05 - Are there any quotes you think of often or live your life by?
49:16- An unusual habit or an absurd thing that she loves: "Melting chocolate and top it with yogurt or nuts to pretend that it's healthy." Reality TV, she's watched every season of the Survivor!
50:30 - The living person she most admires: her middle sister, a pediatrician in Brazil, "probably the most knowledgeable, powerful and yet so humble and generous."
Ana Dutra is an experienced CEO, business advisor and corporate director of publicly traded, family-owned and private corporations. As CEO of Korn Ferry Consulting, Ana led the global the Board Effectiveness practice. Ana currently serves as corporate director at the CME Group (NASDAQ: CME), First Internet Bancorp (NASDAQ: INBK), Carparts.com (NASDAQ: PRTS); Amyris (NASDAQ: AMRS), and Pembina Pipeline (NYSE: PBA). She also serves on the Board of the Latino Corporate Directors Association and co-Chairs its Educational Foundation Board.
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You can follow Evan on social media at:
Twitter: @evanepstein
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
0:00 Intro.
1:45 Start of interview.
2:40 Annemarie's "origin story". She was born and raised in New Jersey. She went to the University of Delaware and later to the Catholic University of America Columbus School of Law. She got her first job at the SEC (Corp Fin) right out of law school. She spent 6 years at the SEC, 5 of them focused on international corporate finance (bringing international companies into the US securities market). Linda Quinn (ex director of Corp Fin) called it her "Chamber of Commerce." Her team's job "was to make it as easy as possible for large international companies to list in the U.S." Reg 144A, Reg S.
6:07 Her time at Skadden Arps (1996-2002). She spent 5 years at the Skadden London office, 1 year in the NY office.
8:16 Her transition to the New York Stock Exchange as Assistant GC (2002-2008).
10:17 Her time at NYFIX as GC from 2008-2010, before it got acquired.
11:50 Her role at SecondMarket as EVP Legal, GC and Corporate Secretary (2010-2015). The firm was founded by Barry Silbert and was a pioneer on secondary markets for private shares (now Digital Currency Group).
17:29 Her time at Nasdaq Private Market as VP, Head of Strategy and New Markets (2015-2018).
22:27 Thoughts on carve-outs (liquidity) for founders in venture rounds (pre-exit). SecondMarket's role in helping expand the shareholder threshold from 500 to 2000 shareholders (Jobs Act, 2012) allowing private companies to stay private for longer.
26:30 Her time at Templum (a registered broker dealer/alternative trading system approved to conduct primary offerings and secondary trading in unregistered digital securities) as chief strategy officer and GC (2018-2019).
28:23 About her firm Liquid Advisors, a strategic advisory firm offering private placement and secondary liquidity structuring and regulatory requirement services, including for digital or token-based securities. "I'm an accidental entrepreneur."
32:30 On regulation of private markets, and her response to SEC Commissioner Allison Herren Lee "Going Dark" concerns. The challenging conditions for U.S. public companies (costs of being public vs benefits of staying private).
38:00 Her thoughts on the market down cycle, including the SPAC situation.
42:07 Her take on blockchain and crypto. SecondMarket started trading BTC in 2012-2013. "Blockchain provides a record-keeping that is immutable." SecondMarket created a Bitcoin Investment Trust. "I'm a huge supporter of blockchain/crypto." "I've been through so many ups and downs of the [BTC] price that I don't get fazed by it anymore." "It's the best performing asset class in the last 10 years, I don't think people can keep ignoring it."
51:28 Her thoughts on the regulation of crypto (President Biden's Executive Order, Governor Newsom's Executive Order). "The market has been begging for clear crypto regulations for some time." "Some states have stepped up where federal regulators have been unwilling to state how to bank or regulate these assets." Crypto friendly environments like Wyoming or Miami.
55:24 The 3 books that have greatly influenced her life:
55:25- Who were your mentors, and what did you learn from them?
56:24 - Are there any quotes you think of often or live your life by? "Nothing to be afraid of if you jump off a cliff as long as you know that you have a safety net."
57:09- An unusual habit or an absurd thing that he loves: Travel junkie! Her goal is to make it to 193 U.N. countries.
01:00:09 - The living person she most admires: her mom.
Annemarie Tierney is the Founder and Principal of Liquid Advisors. She is a seasoned financial services lawyer/strategist with substantial SEC, law firm, and in-house legal experience, as well as experienced in broker dealer regulation, blockchain legal and regulatory issues, securities transactional work, SEC rules and regulations, corporate governance, and international expansion.
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You can follow Evan on social media at:
Twitter: @evanepstein
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
0:00 Intro.
2:08 Start of interview.
2:42 Dan's "origin story". He was born and grew up in Arizona, with a stint in Atlanta, GA. He later attended the University of Arizona on a Flinn Foundation scholarship. He then went off to graduate school to Stanford (Econ), later transitioning to Stanford Law School. He practiced law in Arizona for a year and came back to the Bay Area "almost on any excuse", and ran a cookie company.
8:01 His time at Stanford Law School, first to help launch the LLM Program in corporate governance, and later as Faculty Director of the Rock Center, Associate Dean of Executive Education and Professor of the Practice of Law.
9:19 The story of his company LawLogix, which he sold to Hyland Software/Thoma Bravo in 2015.
14:02 How the board of LawLogix evolved from startup to having PE investors to final sale. Three huge lessons:
23:00 His thoughts on the current market and down cycle (recession). "It is important to distinguish between a financial crisis from a business cycle recession." "It feels like we're in a business cycle recession with a lot of hype. Relatively speaking capital is still cheap."
29:31 On his role as an independent director on the board of the Federal Home Loan Bank of San Francisco. *Congress established the Federal Home Loan Bank System in 1932, in the midst of the Great Depression, to improve the nation’s housing finance system by facilitating the flow of credit for mortgages throughout the country.
34:44 Dan's new fintech startup "Nikkel". Focused on equity comp for employees of late-stage private venture-backed companies. "Many investors would like to be invested in unicorns, but if you look at the distribution of who's invested in unicorns it's a very short list [~20 global investors have material investments, and 10 of them account for 80% of it.] If you want to get access to unicorn returns, you really can't and that's unfortunate.
44:28 Reaction to SEC Commissioner Allison Herren Lee's speech on "Going dark: the growth of private markets and the impact on investors and the economy." "I think that within 3 or 4 years [my startup Nikkel] will be directly or indirectly one of the largest beneficiaries of unicorn upside, because 11% of the global cap table of unicorns right now is the hands of employees in the form of vested options [and nobody pays it any attention to this segment]. Imagine if you can constructively engage around that part of the cap table and have everyone do better [just like billionaires do in managing their wealth, maximizing upside, minimizing taxes, etc.]" Example: Airbnb's 10 year statutory expiration for option grants (before it went public). "Nikkel will advance money to employees on a prepaid variable forward contract." "Employees are at the heart of the success of modern unicorns, more so than ever before." "On average, employees should not sell their shares in a successful high growth venture-funded unicorn."
54:17 What Nikkel will offer tech employees with vested stock options.
57:47 On why he moved from Los Altos, California to Las Vegas, Nevada.
01:02:42 On director evaluations: "The importance of director evaluation has only increased." "The third rail/holy grail of director evaluation is identifying, coaching and assisting under-performing board members and/or helping them ease off the board (i.e. to improve or step-off the board)."
01:07:02 On director education: "Cybersecurity is an area that we pay a lot of attention to it but we don't do it constructively enough." "The best director education is a format that has great content but that allows directors to interact with each other."
01:10:40 The 3 books that have greatly influenced his life:
01:14:00- Who were your mentors, and what did you learn from them?
01:16:38 - Are there any quotes you think of often or live your life by? "Trust, by Verify." "Qui tacet consentire videtur." (he who is silent is understood to consent)
01:17:43- An unusual habit or an absurd thing that he loves: Movies. Waking up absurdly early.
01:19:45 - The living person he most admires.
Dan Siciliano is an Independent Director of the Federal Home Loan Bank of San Francisco and Chair of the American Immigration Council. He is the former faculty director of the Rock Center for Corporate Governance at Stanford University and former Professor of the Practice and Associate Dean at Stanford Law School. Dan was also co-founder, CEO and ultimately Executive Chairman of LawLogix Group, Inc. – a global software technology company.
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You can follow Evan on social media at:
Twitter: @evanepstein
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
0:00 Intro.
1:39 Start of interview
3:41 Marian's "origin story". She grew up in Allentown PA, and when she was 12, she moved to Naples TX. She later attended Reed college in Portland OR. She got interested in urban planning and studied an MSc at LSE. She realized that change would come from corporations (private sector) and took her first job as an analyst at Glass Lewis & Co in 2005 (only the second proxy season for Glass Lewis & Co itself). She later became the first director of ESG research at that firm.
9:27 In 2011, she joined Chevron as a corporate governance analyst and ESG advisor. "They had a world-class corporate governance program led by Lydia Beebe." She helped launch Chevron's first ESG Engagement Program.
11:33 Her transition as Director of Investment Stewardship at Charles Schwab in 2018, where she also helped develop its ESG engagement program.
12:39 On her move to Uber in 2020 - after meeting Keir Gums (now CLO at Broadridge) and Tony West (CLO at Uber). She was Uber's Head of ESG Strategy & Engagement.
15:12 On joining Parnassus Investments this year, and her new role and focus as Head of ESG Stewardship at the firm.
18:28 Her framework on how to think about ESG: "The 'G' underpins all of your success in the E and S. Who's making decisions, and what are the incentives to help drive behaviors to reach the strategic goals and to build (and sustain) value. That's all G." "If you get G right, all else should fall into place." "We want engaged directors: a high quality, competent and diverse board." "That's table stakes for me at this point."
21:31 On the Engine No.1-Exxon Mobil case and the advent of ESG activism. "My advice to boards on how to think about ESG activism is to read the room." "90% of the SP500 is intangibles, so how you steward ESG issues matters (human capital driving these outcomes matters)."
26:39 On the evolution of proxy voting, especially with the rise of index investing and proxy advisors.
29:06 Rating ESG of Silicon Valley tech companies. "I'm going to give them an E." "You have to do a materiality assessment (that's ground zero for a good ESG program)." "Don't grow so fast that you don't see the damage you're doing to yourself." "Growth at all cost is a bad strategy for sustained growth."
34:49 On the criticisms and politicization of ESG: "It's sad that ESG is being politicized." On Tesla getting booted out of the S&P500 ESG index: "the methodology is public."
38:40 On the 2019 BRT restatement of the purpose of the corporation. "I reference it all the time." "I think it's really important to listen to companies when they tell you what to pay attention to." "They are telling me that it matters." "You need to take care of your stakeholders to take care of your shareholders."
42:01 On the new SEC climate disclosure rules. "I'm really excited about it. I think it's great." "We'll see where it comes out."
44:35 The 3 books that have greatly influenced her life:
45:51 - Who were your mentors, and what did you learn from them? Most recent ones:
47:00 - Are there any quotes you think of often or live your life by? "Why not you?" "Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good, especially when it comes to starting a company's ESG journey. Just try, just get started."
48:03 - An unusual habit or an absurd thing that she loves: Aquatic snails!
51:10 - The living person she most admires: the people in her stewardship team right now.
Marian Macindoe is the new Head of ESG Stewardship at Parnassus, an investment firm based in SF with over $45 billion in assets under management. She leads the firm’s stewardship team, which is responsible for proxy voting, impact engagements, shareholder resolutions and direct communication with their investors on ESG matters.
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You can follow Evan on social media at:
Twitter: @evanepstein
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
0:00 Intro.
1:31 Start of interview
2:30 Anne's "origin story". She grew up in Colorado and after attending college, she moved to DC to work on the Hill and later in the Reagan Administration (U.S. Department of Energy). She moved to Sacramento in the late 1980s, where she worked in and out of state government. In her role as Chief Deputy Director of the CA Department of Finance (under Governor Schwarzenegger) she served on the boards of CalPERS and CalSTRS, among many other state boards. In 2007 Stanford issued the first Clapman Report, outlining best practices principles that she used to improve the governance of the CalSTRS board. The next year, she joined CalSTRS as the first Director of Corporate Governance, just in time for the GFC of 2008! She got very involved with the Dodd Frank legislation in 2011 and the rules that came out of it, such as say-on-pay, proxy access, and others. She retired from CalSTRS in 2018 and later joined the boards of Victoria Secret & Co, Cohn Roberts Holding Corp (NYSE:CRHC) and joined PJT Camberview as a senior advisor.
8:45 On the governance of state-owned or public entities, and the influence on politics on those boards. "Anytime there is a politician on a board, there will be a political bent to it." She did not sit on the board of CalPERS when they went after Safeway in their labor dispute (2004). At CalSTRS, they worked very hard to make sure that they did not pursue any political agenda. They made sure to follow a process when making any divestment decision.
11:58 On joining the board of CRHC, and the state of SPACs. CRHC is merging with Allwyn Entertainment, a European lottery operator in a listing valued at $9.3bn.
14:57 On the evolution of ESG. "The history of ESG at CalSTRS goes way back, they had a Statement of Investment Responsibility in 1978, outlining 21 risk factors (now called ESG factors). These are investment risks to the portfolio if they are not managed properly." There is a history of divestment from South Africa by California public pension funds during the Apartheid regime. UNPRI in early 2000s. "One of the issues is all the terminology that is thrown around: CSR, ESG, impact investing, moral or ethical investment, DEI, etc."
20:27 On the evolution of shareholder engagements. The example of CalSTRS and CII. The Engine No.1-Exxon Mobil case. "I've always thought that the acronym should be GES, because the "G" of governance is the infrastructure that sets in place how boards should handle these issues." "The advent of Say-on-Pay forced the engagement between investors and companies."
25:53 On the new criticisms of ESG and politicization of corporations.
27:54 On the exclusion of Tesla from the S&P500 ESG Index.
30:42 On the new SEC climate disclosure rules. "It's probably one of the boldest and most progressive proposals that has come out, probably ever, from the SEC."
34:35 Board diversity and her thoughts on CA courts striking down SB-826 and AB 979, and what these rulings mean for board diversity. Her role in promoting board diversity from CalSTRS starting in 2008, the Diverse Director Database. The role of the big institutional investors such as BlackRock, Vanguard and State Street to promote board diversity. The Nasdaq board diversity rule. DEI beyond the boardroom (racial equity audits, pay gaps, etc.)
41:26 On the governance of private companies, and the rise of private markets. The role of CalSTRS on improving governance of private companies via its LP role and influence.
45:00 Her recommendations on how directors should handle down cycles and recessions. "The governance processes are there to be the guardrails during the uptime and the downturns."
47:11 The 3 books that have greatly influenced her life in the last few years:
48:40 - Who were your mentors, and what did you learn from them?
49:45 - Are there any quotes you think of often or live your life by? "Play the hand that's dealt to you." "Don't obsess over the bitter, go forward." "Perfect is the enemy of tGood" "80% is better than 100% if you can get it, or zero." "The only constant of life is change."
50:39 - An unusual habit or an absurd thing that she loves: When she travels to a new city she gets on those hop in hop off buses (typically tourist traps).
51:10 - The living person she most admires: Zelensky and the people of Ukraine.
Anne Sheehan is a former Director of Corporate Governance at CalSTRS and currently serves on the boards of Victoria's Secret & Co and Cohn Roberts Holding Corp (NYSE:CRHC) and is a senior advisor at PJT Camberview.
__
You can follow Evan on social media at:
Twitter: @evanepstein
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
0:00 Intro.
1:30 Start of interview
2:00 Lisa's "origin story". She grew up in Silicon Valley and after attending college at Stanford, she moved to Mexico City for 3 years where she worked in a boutique consulting firm. She later got an MBA at Harvard Business School. She then joined Bain & Co., became CEO of KnowledgeX (later sold to IBM) and co-founded ValuBond. She joined Visa in 2009, and Salesforce in 2012. In 2019, she joined the board of Colgate-Palmolive.
8:20 In October of 2020, she joined Diligent Corporation as President and COO, based in SF/Bay Area. "Diligent has about 70% of the Fortune 1000 companies as clients, and it's a truly global product." Diligent did four acquisitions during the pandemic, aggregating "governance, risk, compliance 'GRC' and ESG." "It's a $40 billion TAM, and we are the biggest SaaS player in the space." "It's a killer set of applications together."
13:45 Diligent Corporation got taken private by Insight Partners in 2016 (valuing the company at $624 million). "Now it's got to be one of the largest private SaaS companies."
15:05 On the evolution of technology and board portals in corporate boardrooms.
16:37 On the rise of ESG. "It's a very global trend." Examples from Australia, EU, UK, etc. On the SEC's approach with Chairman Gensler. Their global survey with Spencer Stuart, "finding 71% of boards are incorporating ESG into their company strategy, with 85% taking action to increase fluency on ESG." See Sustainability in the Spotlight: Board ESG Oversight and Strategy.
20:56 Her thoughts on the L.A. state court judge striking down SB-826 (AB-979 got struck down in April) and what these rulings mean for board diversity. "Globally, women now occupy 26% of board seats." "In California, women occupy 28% of board seats." "So it seems that SB-826 and AB-979 had a positive effect on diversity of boards."
26:41 On the recent push back by tech titans (Marc Andreessen, Peter Thiel, Elon Musk, etc) on ESG, including the power of institutional investors from the likes of Larry Fink from BlackRock.
29:05 On dual-class share structures. "We [Diligent Corporation] don't have an official position on it."
31:32 On the rise of private markets and governance of private companies.
37:04 On the politicization of corporate governance. "It is a sea change, 10 years ago CEOs avoided commenting on any political issue."
39:05 On the looming recession, and what directors should be doing in this economic downturn. "Boards have dealt with crises before such as the dot com crisis in 2000 or the GFC in 2008, and it looks like we're hitting a new crisis." "It will disproportionally impact private companies."
41:41 On virtual board meetings. "The virtual board meeting is 100% here to stay, but not 100% of the time." "There is no substitute for looking at people in the eye, no substitute for the hallway conversations."
42:29 The 3 books that have greatly influenced her life:
43:09 - Who were your mentors, and what did you learn from them?
43.52 - Are there any quotes you think of often or live your life by? "Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good."
44:33 - An unusual habit or an absurd thing that she loves: Harvesting honey bees!
45:31 - The living person she most admires: RBG.
Lisa Edwards is President and Chief Operating Officer of Diligent Corporation, the leader in modern governance providing SaaS solutions across governance, risk, compliance and ESG with more than $500 million in revenue and a $7 billion company valuation.
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You can follow Evan on social media at:
Twitter: @evanepstein
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
0:00 Intro.
1:18 Start of interview
2:01 Anat's "origin story". She grew up in Israel. She practiced corporate law, VC fund formation, startup representation and M&A in Israel before moving to the U.S.
7:03 Her academic focus at Case Western Reserve University School of Law (Cleveland, Ohio).
9:12 On the practice of compelling employees, who are not yet stockholders, to waive their stockholder inspection rights under Delaware General Corporation Law (Section 220) as a condition to receiving stock options from the company. Based on her paper Bargaining Inequality: Employee Golden Handcuffs and Asymmetric Information, triggered by this WSJ article on the DOMO case.
20:42 Her hand-collected data set consisting of the SEC’s public filings finding that many firms began requiring that their employees sign a waiver clause titled “Waiver of Statutory Information Rights” post Domo (there was a "huge uptick"). NVCA's model legal documents including this waiver clause in its Investors' Rights Agreement.
27:58 The Good Technology (2018) and JUUL Labs, Inc. v. Grove (2020) cases. Description of classic conflicts of interest in venture-backed companies. Discussion of the "internal affairs doctrine".
37:35 On dual fiduciaries and "new" conflicts by founders with other common stockholders (prompted by super voting shares, multiple board votes, ff preferred stock, etc). The Trados case. Fiduciary duties of venture-backed company directors. On the shift of control from VCs (preferred stockholders) to founders. "Bargaining power is the key."
54:32 Take-away thoughts for directors of venture-backed companies. Lawyers as gatekeepers.
58:06 The 1-3 books that have greatly influenced her life:
59:34 - Who were your mentors, and what did you learn from them?
1:00.48 - Are there any quotes you think of often or live your life by? "Be the change that you want to see in the world" "I've always been an activist and that's the mantra that I live by."
1:01:28- An unusual habit or an absurd thing that she loves: Fricasse (Tunisian sandwich), working out.
1:02:02 - The living person she most admires: Prof. Jill Fisch (Penn Law).
Anat Alon-Beck is an Assistant Professor of Law at Case Western Reserve School of Law. Her research examines how legal and regulatory structures influence the shift in equities from public markets to private markets, and the rise in the number of “unicorn” firms.
__
You can follow Evan on social media at:
Twitter: @evanepstein
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
0:00 Intro.
1:37 Start of interview
2:19 Joel's "origin story". He grew up in Stamford, Connecticut ("it was a land of many corporate headquarters"). He went to Wharton undergrad and U. Penn Law School. Later, he clerked at the Court of Chancery in Delaware and worked at Skadden's Wilmington office in Delaware "[the office] had been built around the hostile takeover litigation in the 1980s." In 1995, he joined a new litigation boutique with Stephen Lamb (later Vice-Chancellor of the DE Court of Chancery). Andre Bouchard (later Chancellor of the DE Court of Chancery) joined in 1996.
5:35 The difference between plaintiff and corporate/defense firms, starting at law schools and law student recruitment.
7:04 On the historical evolution of stockholder litigation. Joel teaches a course on stockholder litigation at Penn Law School and Michigan Law School. On how the hostile deals in the 1980s changed the stockholder litigation landscape: "Many of the largest and most sophisticated law firms were suing each other, and that's where most of the law was created."
10:50 On the evolution of class action and derivative actions in stockholder litigation.
13:01 On the concept of Fraud on the Board. "Commission of fraud on the board is an omnipresent temptation for self-interested controllers, activist stockholders, officers, financial advisors, and their legal counsel. Fraud can be used to put a company in play, steer a sale process toward a favored bidder, suppress the sale price to a controller, or make a favored bid look more attractive."
15:56 "Not long ago, over 90% of deals over $100m were sued on, and in most of those cases the stockholders got nothing (prevalence of disclosure settlements)." He advocated for the elimination of disclosure settlements. "In about 2015, the litigation landscape changed."
23:40 On the evolution of Section 220 books and records stockholder demands.
26:37 How director oversight duties have evolved ("Caremark claims"). The impact of the Delaware Supreme Court case of Marchand (2019) focused on food safety.
30:12 How Boeing’s stockholders obtained approval from the Delaware Court of Chancery for a landmark US$237.5 million settlement of derivative claims targeting the company’s board for safety failures that led to catastrophic crashes of two 737 MAX jetliners in 2018 and 2019. *The company disclosed that the two crashes caused US$20 billion in non-litigation costs and more than US$2.5 billion in litigation costs.
35:16 On private venture-backed company deal-making and litigation, particularly in Silicon Valley. The Good Technology case, where director defendants and their affiliated VC funds settled for $17m and the financial advisor JP Morgan settled for $35 million for claims against arising out of challenge to dual-track sale/IPO process that resulted in sale of company to BlackBerry Limited.
40:24 "It's hard to find plaintiffs [in Silicon Valley], there are different obstacles and roadblocks to litigation."
42:38 "In [private venture-backed companies] sometimes you don't have directors who have experience in certain situations, like selling a public company (sophistication of M&A in public settings)."
43:48 "What is ubiquitous is financial advisor conflicts of interest, in Silicon Valley or in any other public company scenario." The example of the Good Technology case.
45:35 On conflicts of legal counsel in deal-making (criticism of law firm behavior). Example: $690 million damages award based on controller’s reliance on outside counsel’s legal opinion.
47:44 The 1-3 books that have greatly influenced his life (that he's re-read the most):
49:08 - Who were your mentors, and what did you learn from them?
53:04 - Are there any quotes you think of often? In a NYT review of the autobiography of Sammy the Bull Gravano he read a quote that said "At some point you've got to ask yourself, are you going to continue being a punk, or are you going to become a racketeer?"
52:40- An unusual habit or an absurd thing that he loves: Twitter.
53:27 - The living person he most admires: Volodymyr Zelensky.
Joel Friedlander is a partner at Friedlander & Gorris. He has over 25 years of experience litigating breach of fiduciary duty actions and contract disputes relating to the control of Delaware entities.
__
You can follow Evan on social media at:
Twitter: @evanepstein
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
0:00 Intro.
1:42 Start of interview
2:26 Stilpon's "origin story". He grew up in Greece and studied law at the University of Thessaloniki. He later got an LLM at Harvard Law School. He practiced corporate law in Greece, but left the country permanently in the mid 1980s. He joined the OECD where he became the first Head of the Corporate Affairs Division. In that position, he lead the team which produced the OECD Principles of Corporate Governance (1999). "The corporate governance issues were very linked to the privatization issues at the time." He later left the OECD in Paris to London, where he started his own firm.
9:36 The origin of his firm Nestor Advisors in 2002. "The idea was to advise companies and their boards on corporate governance matters, since they needed the advice." "The focus initially was on emerging markets, then on OECD markets." Banking is the core sector that they address ("at least 2/3 of our clients are banks.") "Personally, my two areas of focus are the private family, and the banks."
14:15 On the acquisition of Nestor Advisors by Morrow Sodali in 2021. "The sale of Nestor Advisors was always part of my horizon for two reasons: 1) I wanted an exit, and 2) the firm needed to be a part of something bigger in order to go to the next level."
18:04 On the debate of the purpose of the corporation (the shareholder vs stakeholder debate). The BRT '19 restatement that reignited the debate in the U.S. (see Marty Lipton vs Bebchuk). "Milton Friedman said that the social responsibility of the corporation was to increase profits, and that is not a purpose (it's a responsibility)." "The first responsibility for a private economic institution like a corporation is indeed to be profitable (if it's not profitable over time, it goes down and it will not achieve any other purpose." "The process for a company outlining its purpose might be a useful thing, for its strategic focus and as a communications tool."
24:47 On ESG: "the European approach is different to the US. The latter has more of a market approach with pressure from institutional investors and other market actors, whereas the EU is treating this more as an issue of regulation. There is emerging set of rules that are quite tough, such as with the new directive on disclosure of sustainability, disclosure on how to get to net-zero for investors, EU taxonomy of sustainable activities, the obligation of companies to do due diligence on everything that has to do with sustainability.
29:33 On companies withdrawing from Russia due to the conflict in Ukraine. (see Jeffrey Sonnenfeld's list from Yale, over 400 companies have withdrawn at the time of this writing). Example of Raiffeisen Bank (largest foreign bank in Russia).
32:36 How in the current environment CEOs have to make more "geopolitical" decisions or deal with "stakeholder issues" that impact society. "They have become mini statesmen or stateswomen." "I am skeptical about whether these kind of decisions should be put on the shoulders of CEOs and boards, at what point will they loose their purpose?" "I have a fear that we are putting an enormous amount of power in the hands of CEOs and corporations because we expect them to become statesmen/stateswomen." "I am reading this in a pessimistic way, it's a weakening of public institutions in the U.S."
36:23 How the practice of corporate governance has changed in the last 20 years particularly given the current trends of CEO/boards "managing externalities." ("corporations are not anymore simple economic institutions") [Here is a good WSJ article on this subject].
39:10 On governance of private companies and the rise of private markets [in the U.K. and E.U.] The LSE's allowance of dual-class stock to attract new listings.
44:46 New board trends highlighted by Stilpon:
49:12 Stilpon's favorite books :
51:00 - Who were your mentors, and what did you learn from them?
53:04 - Are there any quotes you think of often, or live your life by?
53:47 - An unusual habit or an absurd thing that he loves: He washes the dishes and pans first thing in the morning.
54:19 - The living person he most admires: Bob Bylan. [Stilpon is a also a musician, and he's recorded 5 albums! Check it out]
Stilpon Nestor is the Executive Chairman of Morrow Sodali for EMEA. He is also the Executive Chairman and founder of Nestor Advisors, a company that Morrow Sodali acquired in early 2021.
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Christa Steele is the incoming CEO of BALCO Holdings, owner of Bay Alarm, Bay Alarm Medical, and BALCO Properties. She also serves as a public and private company board director.
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David A. Bell is partner at Fenwick and the co-chair of the firm's corporate governance practice.
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Matt Blumberg is the founder and CEO of Bolster, a marketplace for on-demand executive and board talent.
You can follow Matt at the following links:
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Margaret O’Mara is the Howard & Frances Keller Endowed Professor of History at the University of Washington. She writes and teaches about the growth of the high-tech economy, the history of U.S. politics, and the connections between the two.
You can follow Margaret at the following links:
Twitter @margaretomara
LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaretomara/
Instagram @margaretomara
Website https://www.margaretomara.com
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David Larcker is James Irvin Miller Professor of Accounting at the Graduate School of Business of Stanford University; Director of the Corporate Governance Research Program; Senior Faculty, Arthur and Toni Rembe Rock Center for Corporate Governance. His research focuses on executive compensation, corporate governance, and managerial accounting, examining the choice of performance measures and compensation contracts in organizations. His current research projects address the valuation implications of corporate governance, the impact of proxy advisory firms on shareholder proxy voting, and modeling the cost of executive stock options.
Brian Tayan is a member of the Corporate Governance Research Program at the Stanford Graduate School of Business. He has written broadly on the subject of corporate governance, including boards of directors, succession planning, executive compensation, financial accounting, and shareholder relations. Previously, he worked as a financial analyst at Stanford University's Office of the CEO and as an investment associate at UBS Private Wealth Management. He has actively managed a private investment partnership since 2006, specializing in long-term, conservative growth through equity investments. Tayan received his MBA from the Stanford Graduate School of Business and his BA from Princeton University.
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Dan Green is a Partner and Co-Chair of the Latin America Practice for Gunderson Dettmer, a prominent international law firm headquartered in Silicon Valley.
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Jackie Cook is Director, Stewardship, Product Strategy & Development in Sustainalytics’ Stewardship services team at Morningstar. Follow Jackie on Twitter: @FundVotes
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Aaron Wright is an Associate Clinical Professor of Law at Cardozo Law School; Co-Founder at OpenLaw, The LAO, FlamingoDAO.
You can find him on Twitter @awrigh01
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Jeff Thomas is a Senior Vice President of Nasdaq’s Corporate Services business unit. Based in San Francisco, Jeff oversees Nasdaq’s new Listings and Capital Markets businesses. He also oversees business development and relationship management for Nasdaq’s listed companies and Investor Relations Solutions' clients in the Western United States. Previously, he served as President of Liquidity Solutions at Nasdaq Private Market, where he worked closely with private companies to help them provide shareholder liquidity prior to an IPO.
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Manny Alvarez is a financial services executive and former regulator committed to increasing access to financial literacy and technology, protecting consumers from harmful practices, and engaging under-served communities.
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Kendrick Nguyen is the Founder and CEO of Republic, a private investing platform launched in 2016 for investors seeking high growth potential across startups, gaming, real estate, and crypto.
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Abe M. Friedman is a Partner and Head of PJT Camberview, based in San Francisco. Mr. Friedman joined PJT Partners through the acquisition of CamberView Partners in 2018. Mr. Friedman founded CamberView in 2012 and served as its Chief Executive Officer through 2018. Before founding CamberView, Mr. Friedman was Managing Director and Global Head of Corporate Governance and Responsible Investment at BlackRock. Prior to that role, he served in leadership positions, including Global Head of Corporate Governance, at Barclays Global Investors from 2005 until the company merged with BlackRock in 2009. In 2003, Mr. Friedman helped found Glass, Lewis & Co. and served as Chief Policy Officer and General Counsel.
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Priya Cherian Huskins is a partner and board member at Woodruff Sawyer, a commercial insurance brokerage. She is a leading expert on D&O insurance. In addition to serving as a board member at Woodruff Sawyer, Priya serves on the board of directors of Realty Income Corporation, NMI Holdings, and Anzu Special Acquisition Corp I.
She can be reached via email at Priya@woodruffsawyer.com.
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Maureen Farrell is one of the co-authors of the bestselling book "The Cult of We: WeWork, Adam Neumann and the Great Startup Delusion", the definitive inside story of WeWork and Adam Neumann. Maureen is a reporter that covers capital markets and IPOs at The Wall Street Journal, where she has worked since 2013. She previously worked at CNN, Forbes, Debtwire, and Mergermarket.
She can be reached via email at Maureen.Farrell@wsj.com. Follow her on Twitter: @Maureenmfarrell.
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Robin Ferracone is the Founder and CEO of Farient Advisors. She is the author of the book “Fair Pay, Fair Play: Aligning Executive Performance and Pay” and is a frequent presenter for well-known organizations including Council of Institutional Investors, Society for Corporate Secretaries and Governance Professionals, the National Association of Corporate Directors (NACD), and The Conference Board, among others. Robin has written extensively on the topics of performance management, incentive plan design, goal setting, and corporate governance.
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Christopher Young is the Global Head of Contested Situations at Jefferies, an investment banking firm headquartered in New York, with offices in over 30 cities around the world. Chris is an expert advisor to public company directors and senior management teams with respect to contested situations, including hostile M&A bids and responses, contested "friendly" M&A transactions and shareholder activism, including proxy contests for Board seats.
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Jared A. Ellias is a Professor of Law, the Bion M. Gregory Chair in Business Law and the Faculty Director of the Center for Business Law at the University of California, Hastings College of the Law in San Francisco. In 2020, he was honored by the American Bankruptcy Institute as one of the "40 Under 40 Leaders in Insolvency Practice."
Contact: Faculty Profile • SSRN • LinkedIn •Twitter
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Donna Anderson, the Head of Corporate Governance at T. Rowe Price (NASDAQ:TROW), a global investment management firm with ~$1.5 Trillion of AUM. Donna leads the policy-formation process for proxy voting, chairs the firm’s Proxy Committee and leads the firm’s engagement efforts with portfolio companies. She serves as a specialist for incorporating ESG considerations into the firm’s investment-research process. She is also a member of the firm’s Valuation Committee and the Women’s Roundtable Advisory Council.
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Lawrence A. Cunningham is the Henry St. George Tucker III Research Professor of Law at George Washington University; Director of C-LEAF and the Founding Faculty Director, GWinNY. You can find him at lacunningham@law.gwu.edu or on Twitter @CunninghamProf
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Joseph A. Grundfest is an expert on capital markets, corporate governance, and securities litigation. His scholarship has been published in the Harvard, Yale, and Stanford law reviews, and he has been recognized as one of the most influential attorneys in the United States. Professor Grundfest founded the Stanford Securities Class Action Clearinghouse, which provides detailed, online information about the prosecution, defense, and settlement of federal class action securities fraud litigation. He launched Stanford Law School’s executive education programs and continues to co-direct Directors’ College, the nation’s leading venue for the continuing professional education of directors of publicly traded corporations. He is also a senior faculty member with the Arthur and Toni Rembe Rock Center for Corporate Governance. Additionally, he is co-founder and director of Financial Engines and a director of Kohlberg, Kravis, Roberts & Co. Before joining the Stanford Law School faculty in 1990, Professor Grundfest was a commissioner of the Securities and Exchange Commission, served on the staff of the President’s Council of Economic Advisors as counsel and senior economist for legal and regulatory matters, and was an associate at Wilmer, Cutler & Pickering. Early in his career he was a research associate at the Brookings Institution and an economist and consultant with the RAND Corporation.
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Nell Minow is the Vice Chair of ValueEdge Advisors. She was Co-founder and Director of GMI Ratings from 2010 to 2014, and was Editor and Co-founder of its predecessor firm, The Corporate Library, from 2000 to 2010. Prior to co-founding The Corporate Library, Ms. Minow was a Principal of Lens, a $100 million investment firm that took positions in underperforming companies and used shareholder activism to increase their value. Her other professional experience includes serving as a Principal of Lens Investment Management, as President of Institutional Shareholder Services, Inc., and as an attorney at the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, the Office of Management and Budget, and the Department of Justice.
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"Work hard and be nice to people" (new Michael Franti song)
Jon Lukomnik is the Founder of Sinclair Capital. Jon chairs the audit committee of the Van Eck mutual funds, is a core member of the Funston Advisory team, and serves on the Deloitte Audit Quality Advisory Committee. He has a long track record in corporate governance having served as an investment advisor for the New York City’s pension funds, a managing director of a top ten hedge fund and a director for public and private companies, non-profit corporations and litigation trusts. His new book, co-authored with Professor James Hawley, is “Moving Beyond Modern Portfolio Theory: Investing That Matters”.
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Janine Yancey is the Founder & CEO of Emtrain, a California based online workplace culture platform that helps companies diagnose, benchmark and prevent bad workplace culture outcomes. Prior to founding Emtrain, Janine was a partner at Employment Law Partners where she specialized in solving labor and employment problems for high tech firms including Google, Intuit and a variety of start-ups. Janine also worked as counsel at Liebert Cassidy Whitmore, served as Board Member of the Northern California Human Resources Association, and authored The HR Handbook, designed to help young tech companies navigate workplace laws.
Janine earned her JD at University of California Hastings School of Law and a BA in English and Political Science at the University of California Berkeley.
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David Curran is Chief Sustainability and Environmental, Social and Governance (ESG) Officer at Paul, Weiss. In this role, Dave has dual responsibilities – to work with the firm’s lawyers to lead its Sustainability and ESG Advisory Practice Group, and also to develop and promote the firm’s internal ESG practices.
Dave is a recognized leader in helping complex organizations build resilience. In addition to his work in the ESG space, he has more than 30 years of experience in legal, technology, compliance, risk and ethics roles. Dave has led many popular Thought Leadership conversations with senior executives on a variety of topics where business and technology intersect with the legal, compliance and risk ecosystems, including Transforming Law, Big Data, #MeToo and many others.
Dave serves as co-chair of the New York State Bar Association’s ESG Committee, which aims to educate and engage New York lawyers, law students and faculty on ESG practices and developments through thought leadership and robust educational programs.
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Amy Borrus became executive director of the Council of Institutional Investors (CII) in July 2020. She joined CII in 2006 as deputy director, and was interim executive director in 2015-2016. She serves on the boards of the CII Research and Education Fund and the Sinai Assisted Housing Foundation. She also serves on the Best Practice Principles Oversight Committee, which will monitor principles underpinning services of leading proxy advisory firms. Prior to CII, she was a correspondent for Businessweek magazine for more than 20 years. Her journalism career included multi-year assignments in London, Tokyo and Washington, D.C. She earned an MSc. in International Relations from the London School of Economics and a B.A. in History and English from the University of Pennsylvania
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Nichol Garzon-Mitchell is a Senior Vice President and the General Counsel at Glass Lewis, one of the leading proxy advisory firms in the world. Glass Lewis has over 1,300 clients, including the majority of the world’s largest pension plans, mutual funds and asset managers, who collectively manage more than $40 trillion in assets.
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Aeisha Mastagni is a Portfolio Manager in the Sustainable Investment & Stewardship Strategies Unit at the California State Teachers’ Retirement System (CalSTRS), the second largest public pension fund in the United States with $285 billion dollars in assets under management. Aeisha also serves as a director of Golden 1 Credit Union, California's leading credit union and one of the largest in the United States with over 1 million members and assets over $16 billion.
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Peggy Foran is the Chief Governance Officer, SVP and Corporate Secretary of Prudential Financial. Peggy has been a corporate governance leader throughout her career at Sara Lee Corporation, Pfizer and JP Morgan. She also serves as a director of Orion Group Holdings, and previously served on the boards of Occidental Petroleum Corporation, The MONY Group, and MONY Life Insurance Company.
She currently serves as an active member of many influential advisory boards including the Council of Institutional Investors, the American College of Governance Counsel, the American Bar Association, Catalyst, the Weinberg Center for Corporate Governance, NACD, the Center for Audit Quality (CAQ), the International Integrated Reporting Council, ICGN, and the Society for Corporate Governance.
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Ms. Singh Cassidy is currently the Founder and Chairman of theBoardlist, and most recently served as the President of StubHub Inc, the leading global consumer ticketing marketplace for live entertainment. In February 2020, StubHub was acquired by Viagogo for $4bn, in a transaction led by Sukhinder and her team. She is currently a director of Upstart and Urban Outfitters. Ms. Singh Cassidy previously served on the board of Tripadvisor and Ericsson until 2018. Ms. Singh Cassidy holds a B.A. in Business Administration from the Ivey Business School at Western University.
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David Chun is the founder & CEO of Equilar, a Silicon Valley based leading provider of corporate leadership data solutions. Companies of all sizes rely on Equilar for business development, recruiting, executive compensation and shareholder engagement, including 70% of the Fortune 500 and institutional investors representing over $20 trillion in assets.
In addition, David is a Trustee of the Committee for Economic Development (CED) and serves on the boards of the Silicon Valley Leadership Group (SVLG) and the Asian Pacific Fund Community Foundation of San Francisco. He is on Catalyst’s Women on Board Advisory Council, the Silicon Valley Advisory Council of the Commonwealth Club of California, the Women on Boards Advisory Council of the California Partners Project and the Advisory Council of the Angel Island Immigration Station Foundation.
David is a also a member of the Young Presidents’ Organization (YPO), Past Chair of the SF Bay Chapter, a founding member of the Council of Korean Americans (CKA) and a former advisory board member of the Wharton Center for Entrepreneurship.
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David Berger specializes in corporate governance and M&A litigation as well as rapid response shareholder activism and corporate governance risk oversight. David’s practice is an unusual blend of corporate governance advisory work and litigation, and he is nationally recognized for his expertise in both the boardroom and the courtroom. David also represents directors and companies in internal investigations and public companies on disclosure and SEC proceedings.
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Yumi Narita is the Executive Director of Corporate Governance at the Comptroller's Office of New York City. The Comptroller serves as investment advisor, custodian, and a trustee to the New York City Pension Funds, which hold approximately $228 billion in assets. In her role as Executive Director, Ms. Narita is responsible for developing and implementing active ownership programs for public equities, including voting proxies, engaging portfolio companies on their ESG policies and practices, and advocating for regulatory reforms to protect investors and strengthen investor rights. Ms. Narita has 16 years of experience in the ESG industry. Prior to this role, she was the Global Head of Corporate Governance at Alliance Bernstein, and Vice President on the BlackRock Stewardship team.
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Mason Morfit is a Partner, CEO and CIO of ValueAct Capital and is a member of the firm’s Management Committee. Prior to joining ValueAct Capital at inception, Mr. Morfit worked in equity research for Credit Suisse First Boston’s health care group where he focused on the managed care industry. Mr. Morfit is a member of the Advisory Council for Princeton University’s Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs and serves on the Board of Directors of the Tipping Point Community. He has a B.A. from Princeton University and is a CFA charterholder.
Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
[59:40]
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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
Scott Kupor is the managing partner at Andreessen Horowitz where he is responsible for all operational aspects of running the firm. He has been with the firm since its inception in 2009 and has overseen its rapid growth, from three employees to 180 and from $300 million in assets under management to more than $12 billion.
Scott is chairman of the board of Genesys Works; cofounder and co-director of the Stanford Venture Capital Director’s College; Executive in Residence at Haas School of Business and Boalt School of Law; and a Lecturer at Stanford Law School. He is vice-chair of the investment committee of St. Jude’s Children’s Cancer Research Hospital and also serves as a member of the investment committees for Stanford Medical Center, the Silicon Valley Community Foundation, and Lick Wilmerding High School.
Scott served as Chairman of the Board of the National Venture Capital Association (2017-2018). He is the author of the national bestselling book Secrets of Sand Hill Road: Venture Capital and How to Get It, published by Portfolio, a division of Penguin.
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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
Kate Mitchell is a co-founder of Scale, a Silicon Valley-based firm that invests in early-in-revenue technology companies that are looking to scale. She and the Scale team have backed successful, high growth companies including ExactTarget (Salesforce), RingCentral (NYSE:RNG), HubSpot (NYSE:HUBS), Box (NYSE: BOX), DocuSign, and Omniture (Adobe).
Kate is past chairman and board member of the National Venture Capital Association (NVCA) and is active in policy matters that impact entrepreneurship, start-ups, innovation and inclusion. She co-authored the IPO section of the 2012 JOBS Act and is currently working on additional legislation to help small company IPOs. In 2014, Kate co-founded the NVCA Inclusion & Diversity Task Force (now called VentureForward), which focuses on advancing opportunities for women and minorities across the venture ecosystem. Mitchell received the NVCA Outstanding Service Award in 2013 for her policy work on behalf of the venture industry.
She currently serves on the boards of SVB Financial Group (NASDAQ:SIVB), Fortive Corporation (NYSE:FTV) and the Silicon Valley Community Foundation, and she is a charter member of Environmental Entrepreneurs (Silicon Valley). Kate is also a Kauffman Fellows mentor, a member of the NASDAQ Private Market Advisory Board, and a commentator on technology trends for CNBC Squawk Alley.
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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
Elizabeth Pollman is an expert on corporate law, governance, and rights. She teaches and writes on a wide variety of topics in business law, with a particular focus on corporate governance, purpose, and personhood, as well as startups, entrepreneurship, and law and technology. Her recent work has examined the distinctive governance of venture-backed startups, director oversight liability, corporate disobedience, companies that have business models aimed at changing the law, the trading of private company stock, corporate privacy, and the history of corporate constitutional rights.
David R. Beatty is a Professor at the University of Toronto’s Rotman School of Management and is the Faculty Director of the David and Sharon Johnston Centre for Corporate Governance Innovation. He is also the Founder of the ICD-Rotman Directors Education Program. The 12-day course is delivered across Canada in partnership with 10 other Universities and has trained over 6,000 senior Canadians. For his work in Corporate Governance he was made a Member of the Order of Canada in 2014. In 2018, the International Corporate Governance Network (ICGN), representing 80 asset managers and pension funds from 15 nations with a total of $35 trillion of assets under management, awarded him a Lifetime Achievement Award.
Joseph A. Grundfest is the William A. Franke Professor of Law and Business at Stanford Law School and is a Senior Faculty of the Rock Center for Corporate Governance at Stanford University. Professor Grundfest is a nationally prominent expert on capital markets, corporate governance, and securities litigation.
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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
Introducing Boardroom Governance with Evan Epstein:
Thank you for tuning-in, and I encourage you to subscribe to this podcast if you're interested in corporate governance, board related matters, or leadership generally.
Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License